poll le2 vs ai 190 vs new trickflow
02-16-2010, 12:53 PM
#261
From my experience both AI and LE heads are an improvement over stock. I did the tuning on HVYSS car and his car is proof that the LE2 heads and intake work cause his car is still full weight as you can see in the video he posted above run's fairly well for a boat. I really didn't know what to think about his new purchase of the AI 200cc heads, but I do know that a CNC port job where all ports and chambers are going to be exact will help promote a better balanced engine which should produce more power. Also the flow numbers seem alot better on the AI's compared to his LE2's. So with all that said I fully expect his car to go faster with the head swap.
From what I've personally seen, every car that have AI heads perform. So we are going to do an apples to apple comparison on his car by swapping on his new AI 200cc heads and keeping the GM847 cam so that the heads and intake can show which ones are truly better. The AI spec cam will eventually go in but we are just curious to see how the heads alone will perform compared to his current setup. I don't feel that the GM847 cam is an advantage to one head more than the other and I know there will be haters saying that the cam isn't spec'd for the AI heads but the cam isn't spec'd for the LE2 heads either so this is why we are going to do it this way to get a good result with track times to prove which setup works the best.
From what I've personally seen, every car that have AI heads perform. So we are going to do an apples to apple comparison on his car by swapping on his new AI 200cc heads and keeping the GM847 cam so that the heads and intake can show which ones are truly better. The AI spec cam will eventually go in but we are just curious to see how the heads alone will perform compared to his current setup. I don't feel that the GM847 cam is an advantage to one head more than the other and I know there will be haters saying that the cam isn't spec'd for the AI heads but the cam isn't spec'd for the LE2 heads either so this is why we are going to do it this way to get a good result with track times to prove which setup works the best.
02-16-2010, 01:09 PM
#262
One comment though, a true apples to apples would be both vendor's providing their best ported stock casting: AI200cc vs LE3. Either way, definitely post the results.
02-16-2010, 01:15 PM
#263
That's good, but my concern would be this. How do you know that one set of LE2s is not different than another? How do you know any given set of LE2s isn't better than a set of LE3s? With hand porting one set is going to vary from another, and the porter may be feeling more enthusiastic one day than another and put more effort into one set of heads than another. It is what it is I guess.
02-16-2010, 01:54 PM
#264
That's good, but my concern would be this. How do you know that one set of LE2s is not different than another? How do you know any given set of LE2s isn't better than a set of LE3s? With hand porting one set is going to vary from another, and the porter may be feeling more enthusiastic one day than another and put more effort into one set of heads than another. It is what it is I guess.
02-16-2010, 02:01 PM
#265
AI offers the following:
190cc - $1395 + core
200CC - $1625 + core
LE offers the following:
LE1 - $900 + core
LE2 - $1300 + core
LE3 - $1600 + core
Seems like the LE1 heads are axamples of mild port work... nothing comparable in AI's stable. What's left? AI190cc vs LE2 (comparable in price... and what your average Joe on a budget would buy). and then the top of the line stuff (AI200 vs LE3). Those would be the ideal tests, and make the most sense to me.
Last edited by RealQuick; 02-16-2010 at 03:51 PM.
02-16-2010, 04:36 PM
#269
That's good, but my concern would be this. How do you know that one set of LE2s is not different than another? How do you know any given set of LE2s isn't better than a set of LE3s? With hand porting one set is going to vary from another, and the porter may be feeling more enthusiastic one day than another and put more effort into one set of heads than another. It is what it is I guess.
Exactly 
02-16-2010, 06:37 PM
#271
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LSxPwrdZ:
There are going to be differences in every head from different porters. The LE2's are more apples to apples more in my opinion than LE3's because of valve size and runner size. We don't know an exact number on runners on Franks LE2's currently on his Impala but we do know that the valve size is the same on his current heads to the AI200 heads.
We aren't trying to bash one company to another, we are just testing for our own curiousity and thought we would share with you guys since it doesnt seem there has been a back to back comparison.
I fully agree that the LE2's are not going to be consistant with one another and that is just part of a hand port job. Either way these are LE2's and we are just comparing them to the AI200 heads, head to head. Like I said originally there may be differences between AI and LE heads but that is there design so which is better? We will find out!
There are going to be differences in every head from different porters. The LE2's are more apples to apples more in my opinion than LE3's because of valve size and runner size. We don't know an exact number on runners on Franks LE2's currently on his Impala but we do know that the valve size is the same on his current heads to the AI200 heads.
We aren't trying to bash one company to another, we are just testing for our own curiousity and thought we would share with you guys since it doesnt seem there has been a back to back comparison.
I fully agree that the LE2's are not going to be consistant with one another and that is just part of a hand port job. Either way these are LE2's and we are just comparing them to the AI200 heads, head to head. Like I said originally there may be differences between AI and LE heads but that is there design so which is better? We will find out!
02-16-2010, 08:17 PM
#272
No it isn't.
""$1975 + Core* - Complete, Assembled, with camshaft & Ready to Bolt-On""
http://www.advancedinduction.com/AiProductsLT1.html
At the 1500$ mark I would go with the 21* Trickflow heads.
""$1975 + Core* - Complete, Assembled, with camshaft & Ready to Bolt-On""
http://www.advancedinduction.com/AiProductsLT1.html
At the 1500$ mark I would go with the 21* Trickflow heads.
02-16-2010, 09:57 PM
#274
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I would not go as far as saying that... There are guys who run good numbers and there are guys with some poor thought-out combinations who don't run good numbers. SO many variables to running a good time slip.
02-16-2010, 10:04 PM
#275
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Well of course you wouldn't, but I would. You obviously have not seen the pics of the heads posted over the years. They look like Pablo Paco Pedro Francisco from behind the NAPA parts counter picked up a dremel. Sure we can all excuse bad numbers for a combo that isn't "thought out." It's the politically correct thing to do, however there is such a thing as shitty performance due to a shitty product. I choose to believe most of the situations I've seen are from a shitty product because I have never seen the kind of ports from other well known hand porters look as bad as some of the heads I've seen from LE.
02-16-2010, 10:20 PM
#276
I have seen some pictures once or twice of LE heads that looked maybe a little less than ideal so I guess I personally got lucky. I inspected mine very closely prior to installation and they looked like a piece of art work. I think the car runs pretty damn good too especially considering I have 561 castings and a suspension set up more for handling. I am a very satisfied LE customer and have not enough good things to say about Lloyd. In the end I won't pick sides because I can see the pros and cons of both. Regarding consistency, you can't get the consistency out of hand porting that you can with CNC. For someone like me that simply wanted to build a car that would run 11's on a tight budget, I don't think it's anything to worry about, just IMO.
02-17-2010, 07:42 AM
#277
What CC are le2? Aren't they more like 200
LE3 is 205cc, how does that make LE3 vs AI 200 fair?
I'm anxious to see a comparison of the 2 on hvyss' car. It is a comparison of each companies "go to" head. The difference in cost is simply indicitave of the quality and performance potential of each piece
LE3 is 205cc, how does that make LE3 vs AI 200 fair?
I'm anxious to see a comparison of the 2 on hvyss' car. It is a comparison of each companies "go to" head. The difference in cost is simply indicitave of the quality and performance potential of each piece
02-17-2010, 08:06 AM
#278
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What CC are le2? Aren't they more like 200
LE3 is 205cc, how does that make LE3 vs AI 200 fair?
I'm anxious to see a comparison of the 2 on hvyss' car. It is a comparison of each companies "go to" head. The difference in cost is simply indicitave of the quality and performance potential of each piece
LE3 is 205cc, how does that make LE3 vs AI 200 fair?
I'm anxious to see a comparison of the 2 on hvyss' car. It is a comparison of each companies "go to" head. The difference in cost is simply indicitave of the quality and performance potential of each piece
Plus the funny part about this entire thread is that heads are a very small part of the really big picture.
-Dustin-
