need some help with picking cam and supporting parts
05-26-2010, 01:13 PM
#1
need some help with picking cam and supporting parts i was going to go all out on the motor but after some time considering things and doing some home work im going to hold off and just throw a cam in it and some headers for right now. i cant do long tubes becuase i have to pass a visual inspection so im going to do some mid length headers.
id like to get out of the car 350 rwhp and around the same hp. i see a lot of guys doing it on boltons and a cam so i dont think its a stretch.
whats a good cam to run? the efi cams seem to be pretty promising from what i can see. which one do you guys think is the best for a street/strip car?
also what springs should i get to support that? beehives?
what about push rod selection? will the rod length change?
whats the best bang roller rocker for the money?
my last two questions is can you suggest a good stall for the converter with the cam and can i run the stock injectors?
sorry for all the questions but i know you guys know way more about these things than i do and i rather get it right then think i know it all and mess it up or wast my money.
id like to get out of the car 350 rwhp and around the same hp. i see a lot of guys doing it on boltons and a cam so i dont think its a stretch.
whats a good cam to run? the efi cams seem to be pretty promising from what i can see. which one do you guys think is the best for a street/strip car?
also what springs should i get to support that? beehives?
what about push rod selection? will the rod length change?
whats the best bang roller rocker for the money?
my last two questions is can you suggest a good stall for the converter with the cam and can i run the stock injectors?
sorry for all the questions but i know you guys know way more about these things than i do and i rather get it right then think i know it all and mess it up or wast my money.
05-26-2010, 02:09 PM
#4
The 230/236 puts down great numbers. Check this thread:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...no-result.html
As far as injectors go, with a cam-only setup you should be fine.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...no-result.html
As far as injectors go, with a cam-only setup you should be fine.
05-26-2010, 02:15 PM
#5
The XFI 466 and the XFI 230/236 are two totally different cams. You won't be making 350rwhp cam-only through an automatic and autos dyno pretty low generally so I wouldn't be too concerned with meeting a horsepower goal.
Do you DD the car? How high are you willing to rev the motor? I assume you don't have to pass any kind of a sniffer test for inspection?
I haven't seen too many people run the XFI 230/236 and for that reason I would check out the XE 230/236 by Comp. If you DD the car though it may be a bit much with an auto so I would also look into the Comp XE 224/230 aka the cc503. The GM846 is pretty comparable to the cc503 and the Lunati 219/227 is pretty comparable to the XFI 466, just throwing a couple more options out there.
Do you DD the car? How high are you willing to rev the motor? I assume you don't have to pass any kind of a sniffer test for inspection?
I haven't seen too many people run the XFI 230/236 and for that reason I would check out the XE 230/236 by Comp. If you DD the car though it may be a bit much with an auto so I would also look into the Comp XE 224/230 aka the cc503. The GM846 is pretty comparable to the cc503 and the Lunati 219/227 is pretty comparable to the XFI 466, just throwing a couple more options out there.
05-27-2010, 01:51 AM
#6
The XFI 466 and the XFI 230/236 are two totally different cams. You won't be making 350rwhp cam-only through an automatic and autos dyno pretty low generally so I wouldn't be too concerned with meeting a horsepower goal.
Do you DD the car? How high are you willing to rev the motor? I assume you don't have to pass any kind of a sniffer test for inspection?
I haven't seen too many people run the XFI 230/236 and for that reason I would check out the XE 230/236 by Comp. If you DD the car though it may be a bit much with an auto so I would also look into the Comp XE 224/230 aka the cc503. The GM846 is pretty comparable to the cc503 and the Lunati 219/227 is pretty comparable to the XFI 466, just throwing a couple more options out there.
Do you DD the car? How high are you willing to rev the motor? I assume you don't have to pass any kind of a sniffer test for inspection?
I haven't seen too many people run the XFI 230/236 and for that reason I would check out the XE 230/236 by Comp. If you DD the car though it may be a bit much with an auto so I would also look into the Comp XE 224/230 aka the cc503. The GM846 is pretty comparable to the cc503 and the Lunati 219/227 is pretty comparable to the XFI 466, just throwing a couple more options out there.
do i dd the car? not really i do take it to work occasionally most times one of my other vehicles. no sniffer test
im really just trying to wake the car up till i get around to really tearing the car apart in a few years. i was going to do it now but i have to much going on and when i figured out i was going to have to go with a mail order tune figured id wait. and just do some simple mods like cams, headers and the free mods.
if you were to recommenced a cam for someone who would just take the car out on the weekends and cruise around, maybe go to the track once or twice in the summer, and drive it back and for to work (all highway) now and then which cam would you recommend?
by the way that was a great write up.
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05-27-2010, 01:24 PM
#8
No i realize there two totally different cams. i just dont know if i want to go that big. in not horribly concerned about meeting my goal its just a goal.
do i dd the car? not really i do take it to work occasionally most times one of my other vehicles. no sniffer test
im really just trying to wake the car up till i get around to really tearing the car apart in a few years. i was going to do it now but i have to much going on and when i figured out i was going to have to go with a mail order tune figured id wait. and just do some simple mods like cams, headers and the free mods.
if you were to recommenced a cam for someone who would just take the car out on the weekends and cruise around, maybe go to the track once or twice in the summer, and drive it back and for to work (all highway) now and then which cam would you recommend?
by the way that was a great write up.
do i dd the car? not really i do take it to work occasionally most times one of my other vehicles. no sniffer test
im really just trying to wake the car up till i get around to really tearing the car apart in a few years. i was going to do it now but i have to much going on and when i figured out i was going to have to go with a mail order tune figured id wait. and just do some simple mods like cams, headers and the free mods.
if you were to recommenced a cam for someone who would just take the car out on the weekends and cruise around, maybe go to the track once or twice in the summer, and drive it back and for to work (all highway) now and then which cam would you recommend?
by the way that was a great write up.
Since your a little afraid to go that big then your best bet is to probaly go with something inbetween the two. I'm not a big fan of the XFI 466, one of my good buddies runs that cam and to be honest his results from it are less than stellar and he wishes he had went with the cc503.
With an auto and based off what your saying I would personally go with the cc503, it would suit your needs well and falls between the XFI 466 and XFI 230/236. I actually ran it with a 3600 stall and 3.73's a few years back and it was great. It drove well on the street and performed very well at the track so it's a great dual purpose cam. I'm also a big fan of the XE 230/236 which is the cc503's big brother but the cc503 is more of a safe bet in most cases and may suit you a tad better. Based off what your saying I probaly wouldn't go with a cam any smaller than the cc503.
05-27-2010, 03:06 PM
#10
Nope, I've always had dual purpose cars since I can't afford a car for the track and one for the street so I've always gone with cams that perform great at the track but still work well on the street. I have driven and been in cars with smaller cams and they make for some fun DD's that's for sure.
Why do you ask?
Why do you ask?
05-27-2010, 05:36 PM
#11
You say that like a small cam won't perform well at the track too. I ask because a lot of people say go with X because they've never ran anything else. A small cam in my experience will rape a bigger cam everytime on a bolt on car. That's what I feel the op is asking for, especially having stock heads.
Were the heads ported, big stall, big gear, etc then 503 or bigger cam could be beneficial.
Were the heads ported, big stall, big gear, etc then 503 or bigger cam could be beneficial.
05-27-2010, 06:10 PM
#12
You say that like a small cam won't perform well at the track too. I ask because a lot of people say go with X because they've never ran anything else. A small cam in my experience will rape a bigger cam everytime on a bolt on car. That's what I feel the op is asking for, especially having stock heads.
Were the heads ported, big stall, big gear, etc then 503 or bigger cam could be beneficial.
Were the heads ported, big stall, big gear, etc then 503 or bigger cam could be beneficial.
As you know there's alot of variables that determine whether a particular small cam will out perform a larger one and vice versa as that lies in the various specs of the particular cam but that is when things get complicated. I have been doing alot of reading up on that sort of thing and many times yes a 218 intake cam will outperform one with a 228 intake duration. We have ramp rates, lobe area etc. that will determine that, very interesting stuff. I'm still learning so I'm no expert.
I don't doubt that in your experience you have seen smaller cams outperform larger ones on cam-only LT1's but I have personally only seen that when the larger cammed car wasn't setup optimally while the smaller cammed one was. Overall I think it all comes down to the setup and whichever car is setup "right" will be the winner. I'd rather have a car with an LPE 211/219 cam setup perfectly than a GM847 car in shambles because the tiny cammed car will infact rape it. To be honest I prefer a smaller cam vs. a larger one, I run a 224 intake duration cam and my car is 80% strip/20% street. I could run more duration to act a "bandaid" to make up for areas in my intake tract that do not allow the heads to flow to their peak but honestly I don't feel in my particular setup that is needed and the cam I have is more than enough.
I don't like that XFI 466 cam much because it simply didn't produce as well as expected in a cam-only setup. I can see where in the overall setup of the car that things could be changed to match the cam a little better but I do not feel that it's too far off right now. I do however think a couple tweaks with the lsa being one of the obvious things, that cam would be an excellent choice. The cc503 just made a really enjoyable car that performed great cam-only so I do like to recommend it. Is it the best choice? Who knows
05-27-2010, 09:55 PM
#15
I don't mean it that way eventhough it may seem it, just seems like the OP wants a somewhat hefty grind.
As you know there's alot of variables that determine whether a particular small cam will out perform a larger one and vice versa as that lies in the various specs of the particular cam but that is when things get complicated. I have been doing alot of reading up on that sort of thing and many times yes a 218 intake cam will outperform one with a 228 intake duration. We have ramp rates, lobe area etc. that will determine that, very interesting stuff. I'm still learning so I'm no expert.
I don't doubt that in your experience you have seen smaller cams outperform larger ones on cam-only LT1's but I have personally only seen that when the larger cammed car wasn't setup optimally while the smaller cammed one was. Overall I think it all comes down to the setup and whichever car is setup "right" will be the winner. I'd rather have a car with an LPE 211/219 cam setup perfectly than a GM847 car in shambles because the tiny cammed car will infact rape it. To be honest I prefer a smaller cam vs. a larger one, I run a 224 intake duration cam and my car is 80% strip/20% street. I could run more duration to act a "bandaid" to make up for areas in my intake tract that do not allow the heads to flow to their peak but honestly I don't feel in my particular setup that is needed and the cam I have is more than enough.
I don't like that XFI 466 cam much because it simply didn't produce as well as expected in a cam-only setup. I can see where in the overall setup of the car that things could be changed to match the cam a little better but I do not feel that it's too far off right now. I do however think a couple tweaks with the lsa being one of the obvious things, that cam would be an excellent choice. The cc503 just made a really enjoyable car that performed great cam-only so I do like to recommend it. Is it the best choice? Who knows
As you know there's alot of variables that determine whether a particular small cam will out perform a larger one and vice versa as that lies in the various specs of the particular cam but that is when things get complicated. I have been doing alot of reading up on that sort of thing and many times yes a 218 intake cam will outperform one with a 228 intake duration. We have ramp rates, lobe area etc. that will determine that, very interesting stuff. I'm still learning so I'm no expert.
I don't doubt that in your experience you have seen smaller cams outperform larger ones on cam-only LT1's but I have personally only seen that when the larger cammed car wasn't setup optimally while the smaller cammed one was. Overall I think it all comes down to the setup and whichever car is setup "right" will be the winner. I'd rather have a car with an LPE 211/219 cam setup perfectly than a GM847 car in shambles because the tiny cammed car will infact rape it. To be honest I prefer a smaller cam vs. a larger one, I run a 224 intake duration cam and my car is 80% strip/20% street. I could run more duration to act a "bandaid" to make up for areas in my intake tract that do not allow the heads to flow to their peak but honestly I don't feel in my particular setup that is needed and the cam I have is more than enough.
I don't like that XFI 466 cam much because it simply didn't produce as well as expected in a cam-only setup. I can see where in the overall setup of the car that things could be changed to match the cam a little better but I do not feel that it's too far off right now. I do however think a couple tweaks with the lsa being one of the obvious things, that cam would be an excellent choice. The cc503 just made a really enjoyable car that performed great cam-only so I do like to recommend it. Is it the best choice? Who knows
The OP would benefit from a grind such as the 466 IMO if he keeps the stock stall, etc or even if he does a mild stall and gear.
Lots of options though.
05-28-2010, 01:51 AM
#16
i dont know what gears i have. i have to figure it out. i just bought a rear with 30k on it a few weeks ago and im going to throw that in. ill have to take a look at what in it though.
by the way what does lsa stand for?
im kinda leaning toward the cc503 but i got to look around the forum a little and do some searching and see how each person likes the cc503 and the 466 and seeing how they run with a similar setup to what i want to do.
like i said before i have 2 other cars as well. i just enjoy driving this one so i take it most of the time.
right now the whole drive train is out of the car. so if im going to change the cam and stall now is the time to do it.
by the way what does lsa stand for?
im kinda leaning toward the cc503 but i got to look around the forum a little and do some searching and see how each person likes the cc503 and the 466 and seeing how they run with a similar setup to what i want to do.
like i said before i have 2 other cars as well. i just enjoy driving this one so i take it most of the time.
right now the whole drive train is out of the car. so if im going to change the cam and stall now is the time to do it.
05-28-2010, 02:44 AM
#17
lsa = lobe seperation angle.
PM me if you would like some more help picking a cam.
You wont see a lot of people running the 466 so feedback from that alone is going to be hard to get. and like I said above, you will find 50 people with the cc503 or cc306, etc etc who LOVE it and IT'S THE BESTEST THING EVAR!!!! simply because they have NEVER ran another cam or had another type of setup.
It's best to decide what your goals and intended use for the car are, then choose a cam accordingly. Not go off of what someone else says because they've never tried anything different.
I have seen real world in person results from cams all the way from the hotcam up to a custom LE grind as big or bigger than the GM847. Right now I'm running a custom XFI grind and one we spec'd for a friend on here and they both have been producing some great results.
PM me if you would like some more help picking a cam.
You wont see a lot of people running the 466 so feedback from that alone is going to be hard to get. and like I said above, you will find 50 people with the cc503 or cc306, etc etc who LOVE it and IT'S THE BESTEST THING EVAR!!!! simply because they have NEVER ran another cam or had another type of setup.
It's best to decide what your goals and intended use for the car are, then choose a cam accordingly. Not go off of what someone else says because they've never tried anything different.
I have seen real world in person results from cams all the way from the hotcam up to a custom LE grind as big or bigger than the GM847. Right now I'm running a custom XFI grind and one we spec'd for a friend on here and they both have been producing some great results.
05-29-2010, 08:31 AM
#18
after talking to some people im going to go with the cc503 becuase i think this will be a good cam when i get around to porting the heads. this is the right part number for the cam right 07-503-8
im thinking about running beehive springs with this cam unless you guys recommend a better spring for this cam
im going to go with new hardened push rods unless you guys say leave the ones in my car alone. im going to go with the 5/16 7.200"
im was thinking about running a self aligning rocker with a 7/16 stud. bad idea? or will i be fine?
for street use a 2800 stall converter but i got to check my gear ratio first.
this stuff sound about right to you guys?
also the rear came out of another car. im going to pull the cover does any one have a way to count the teeth to figure out what the ratios are.
im thinking about running beehive springs with this cam unless you guys recommend a better spring for this cam
im going to go with new hardened push rods unless you guys say leave the ones in my car alone. im going to go with the 5/16 7.200"
im was thinking about running a self aligning rocker with a 7/16 stud. bad idea? or will i be fine?
for street use a 2800 stall converter but i got to check my gear ratio first.
this stuff sound about right to you guys?
also the rear came out of another car. im going to pull the cover does any one have a way to count the teeth to figure out what the ratios are.
05-29-2010, 02:35 PM
#20
after talking to some people im going to go with the cc503 becuase i think this will be a good cam when i get around to porting the heads. this is the right part number for the cam right 07-503-8
Yes
im thinking about running beehive springs with this cam unless you guys recommend a better spring for this cam
They will work fine. I personally prefer the PAC's over the Comps. PAC 1218's would work (same as Comp 918's, the Crane 10308-1's would work, Patriot Golds, Bullet 2700's...
im going to go with new hardened push rods unless you guys say leave the ones in my car alone. im going to go with the 5/16 7.200"
I would suggest the Trick Flow hardened chromoly ones, $87 in Summit. Assuming the heads haven't been milled, block decked, running a stock head gasket, then the 7.200" length will be good.
im was thinking about running a self aligning rocker with a 7/16 stud. bad idea? or will i be fine?
I wouldn't because the NSA are really the way to go when you will be spinning the rpm that the 503 wants, basically cheap insurance. Especially with ported heads you will want to go with the NSA rockers so might as well do it right now so it saves you money from having to swap later on. Grab some ARP studs #134-7103 IIRC and some Trick Flow guideplates.
for street use a 2800 stall converter but i got to check my gear ratio first.
2800 would be fine but it wouldn't hurt you to go a tad larger. If it were me I'd probaly run something like a Yank SS3200 or comparable, very streetable and would perform great with that cam. I had the SS3600 with the cc503 and that was a great match but I probaly wouldn't recommend anything larger than that unless the focus is on racing. Whichever stall you end up with just make sure it's a high quality converter like a Yank, Vig, Circle D, FTI etc. etc.
this stuff sound about right to you guys?
also the rear came out of another car. im going to pull the cover does any one have a way to count the teeth to figure out what the ratios are.
Make a mark on one of the teeth on the ring gear and rotate the wheels and count up how many teeth are on it. Do the same for the pinion gear and divide the number of ring gear teeth by the number of pinion gear teeth. So say you have 42 teeth on the ring and 13 on the pinion, 42/13 gives you a 3.23 gear ratio.
Yes
im thinking about running beehive springs with this cam unless you guys recommend a better spring for this cam
They will work fine. I personally prefer the PAC's over the Comps. PAC 1218's would work (same as Comp 918's, the Crane 10308-1's would work, Patriot Golds, Bullet 2700's...
im going to go with new hardened push rods unless you guys say leave the ones in my car alone. im going to go with the 5/16 7.200"
I would suggest the Trick Flow hardened chromoly ones, $87 in Summit. Assuming the heads haven't been milled, block decked, running a stock head gasket, then the 7.200" length will be good.
im was thinking about running a self aligning rocker with a 7/16 stud. bad idea? or will i be fine?
I wouldn't because the NSA are really the way to go when you will be spinning the rpm that the 503 wants, basically cheap insurance. Especially with ported heads you will want to go with the NSA rockers so might as well do it right now so it saves you money from having to swap later on. Grab some ARP studs #134-7103 IIRC and some Trick Flow guideplates.
for street use a 2800 stall converter but i got to check my gear ratio first.
2800 would be fine but it wouldn't hurt you to go a tad larger. If it were me I'd probaly run something like a Yank SS3200 or comparable, very streetable and would perform great with that cam. I had the SS3600 with the cc503 and that was a great match but I probaly wouldn't recommend anything larger than that unless the focus is on racing. Whichever stall you end up with just make sure it's a high quality converter like a Yank, Vig, Circle D, FTI etc. etc.
this stuff sound about right to you guys?
also the rear came out of another car. im going to pull the cover does any one have a way to count the teeth to figure out what the ratios are.
Make a mark on one of the teeth on the ring gear and rotate the wheels and count up how many teeth are on it. Do the same for the pinion gear and divide the number of ring gear teeth by the number of pinion gear teeth. So say you have 42 teeth on the ring and 13 on the pinion, 42/13 gives you a 3.23 gear ratio.
