Stock 10 bolt !
07-20-2010, 06:58 AM
#61
i know of g bodys and camaros going 8s with the 8.5 corp rear ends and they have the tubes welded.
i also know of these people who have 8.8 rears under there cars and guess what there welded..Chris tuten,john kolivas,steve jackson,alex vrettos(pretty sure he has a 9" now though..but went low 7s with a 8.8) big daddy,david wolfe..he might of changed also now.them are 1300rwhp-3000rwhp cars right there.
You weld your axle tubs because they want to rotate an flex..thats why you weld them and brace them..
remember you have a rear end that is held in by your tq arm and lca's or lca's and uca's with the fords..you lunch your rear is trying to rotate and the arms are pushing the car up an giving it traction..now the tq arm and upper control arms are attached to the main housing of the rear..not the rear end tubes..so now thats wanting to rotate up do to power being transferd to the ground..but yet your lower's are held in and lifting the car up by them points also..which is forcing the rear end down..so in sense you have the middle trying to climb along with the outter tubes but also the outer tubes have the weight of the car pushing back down on them which will cause the tubes to bend,rotate or break.Yes with a tq arm or upper control arms on a fox or g body they have weight on them but remember the arm or the upper are not all the same length as your lowers so its not the same force being applied at each mount
i also know of these people who have 8.8 rears under there cars and guess what there welded..Chris tuten,john kolivas,steve jackson,alex vrettos(pretty sure he has a 9" now though..but went low 7s with a 8.8) big daddy,david wolfe..he might of changed also now.them are 1300rwhp-3000rwhp cars right there.
You weld your axle tubs because they want to rotate an flex..thats why you weld them and brace them..
remember you have a rear end that is held in by your tq arm and lca's or lca's and uca's with the fords..you lunch your rear is trying to rotate and the arms are pushing the car up an giving it traction..now the tq arm and upper control arms are attached to the main housing of the rear..not the rear end tubes..so now thats wanting to rotate up do to power being transferd to the ground..but yet your lower's are held in and lifting the car up by them points also..which is forcing the rear end down..so in sense you have the middle trying to climb along with the outter tubes but also the outer tubes have the weight of the car pushing back down on them which will cause the tubes to bend,rotate or break.Yes with a tq arm or upper control arms on a fox or g body they have weight on them but remember the arm or the upper are not all the same length as your lowers so its not the same force being applied at each mount
Last edited by suicidal racing; 07-20-2010 at 07:10 AM.
07-20-2010, 07:26 AM
#62
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I understand the reasoning for some of the extremely high HP cars doing this. And I was just giving an example of someone that decided to see first hand what an unwelded rear could handle.
I am just saying, I believe that for 90% of the cars on here probably don't need the tubes welded as a necessity, but more along the lines of precaution, or to make them felt better.
Let me ask u this, and please don't take this as sarcasm, did the people (camaros / g-bodies) running the 10 bolts ever actually try to run an unwelded rear?
I am just saying, I believe that for 90% of the cars on here probably don't need the tubes welded as a necessity, but more along the lines of precaution, or to make them felt better.
Let me ask u this, and please don't take this as sarcasm, did the people (camaros / g-bodies) running the 10 bolts ever actually try to run an unwelded rear?
07-20-2010, 07:39 AM
#63
ive never asked them..its a saftey thing though really..a bent tube or busted tube can send you into other lanes and such..an i know of 700hp cars who weld the tubes..
i org said welding them to make stronger when talking about a 10blt..the guy who i responded to asked how would welding the tubes make it stronger really and disagreed with me on that..so then i pointed out cars who run welded stock rears.
my top post above i went into detail why its a good idea and reason to do it and what makes the axle tubes bend,rotate and break.
thats cool your buddy did that with his car..i never was saying it shouldnt be done..**** its like spraying stock motors and cranks..people say of a stock crank cant take 500hp you need forged but theres people out there doing 700 an 800 or better on stock parts...now is it safe..probley not and they know at some point they will have a viewing point in there pans..
i org said welding them to make stronger when talking about a 10blt..the guy who i responded to asked how would welding the tubes make it stronger really and disagreed with me on that..so then i pointed out cars who run welded stock rears.
my top post above i went into detail why its a good idea and reason to do it and what makes the axle tubes bend,rotate and break.
thats cool your buddy did that with his car..i never was saying it shouldnt be done..**** its like spraying stock motors and cranks..people say of a stock crank cant take 500hp you need forged but theres people out there doing 700 an 800 or better on stock parts...now is it safe..probley not and they know at some point they will have a viewing point in there pans..
07-20-2010, 12:01 PM
#64
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The best bet to avoid breakage - avoid slicks or drag radials.
My 10-bolt is happy and quiet. About 13 years ago, I spent months talking to rear-end specialists, to see exactly what fails in these.
From then, I did the following:
* aluminum diff. cover - increases fluid capacity to "possibly" dissipate heat faster and also allows the use of external preload bearing studs to keep even pressure on the caps.
* bearing cap studs - I ditched the stretch-prone cap bolts and used ARP studs. It reinforces the cap preventing premature bearing failure.
* solid shims - by replacing the sloppy crush sleeve, it maintains the proper pinion to ring mesh. When the crush sleeve crushes beyond the original setup, you'll usually hear moaning first on decel, then total failure soon after.
* Torsen Diff - the stock Auburn uses clutch packs to provide limited slip. These do wear out leaving the tell-tale single wheel burn out. While not bullet proof, the Torsen uses worm gears, so at least you don't have to worry about failing clutches anymore.
* gears - Personally, I would never use Richmond gears. Too many problems from people I know. I chose US Strange as they have a reputation for being quiet and durable. GM/Motive are just as good.
* aftermarket LCA and Panhard bar - the better controlled the movement of the axle, the easier it is on the gears.
* fluid - I typically use a heavier weight fluid, 80w - 140. I may be increasing parasitic losses, but the extra protection "possibly" afforded is worth it to me.
Heck, I don't even know if these things did anything. However, after 13 years of abuse, I've had no issues. And yes, I chirp gears all the time, so I am not easy on the rear either. Will it fail? Eventually - but for now, it's just fine.
My 10-bolt is happy and quiet. About 13 years ago, I spent months talking to rear-end specialists, to see exactly what fails in these.
From then, I did the following:
* aluminum diff. cover - increases fluid capacity to "possibly" dissipate heat faster and also allows the use of external preload bearing studs to keep even pressure on the caps.
* bearing cap studs - I ditched the stretch-prone cap bolts and used ARP studs. It reinforces the cap preventing premature bearing failure.
* solid shims - by replacing the sloppy crush sleeve, it maintains the proper pinion to ring mesh. When the crush sleeve crushes beyond the original setup, you'll usually hear moaning first on decel, then total failure soon after.
* Torsen Diff - the stock Auburn uses clutch packs to provide limited slip. These do wear out leaving the tell-tale single wheel burn out. While not bullet proof, the Torsen uses worm gears, so at least you don't have to worry about failing clutches anymore.
* gears - Personally, I would never use Richmond gears. Too many problems from people I know. I chose US Strange as they have a reputation for being quiet and durable. GM/Motive are just as good.
* aftermarket LCA and Panhard bar - the better controlled the movement of the axle, the easier it is on the gears.
* fluid - I typically use a heavier weight fluid, 80w - 140. I may be increasing parasitic losses, but the extra protection "possibly" afforded is worth it to me.
Heck, I don't even know if these things did anything. However, after 13 years of abuse, I've had no issues. And yes, I chirp gears all the time, so I am not easy on the rear either. Will it fail? Eventually - but for now, it's just fine.
07-20-2010, 12:04 PM
#65
The best bet to avoid breakage - avoid slicks or drag radials.
My 10-bolt is happy and quiet. About 13 years ago, I spent months talking to rear-end specialists, to see exactly what fails in these.
From then, I did the following:
* aluminum diff. cover - increases fluid capacity to "possibly" dissipate heat faster and also allows the use of external preload bearing studs to keep even pressure on the caps.
* bearing cap studs - I ditched the stretch-prone cap bolts and used ARP studs. It reinforces the cap preventing premature bearing failure.
* solid shims - by replacing the sloppy crush sleeve, it maintains the proper pinion to ring mesh. When the crush sleeve crushes beyond the original setup, you'll usually hear moaning first on decel, then total failure soon after.
* Torsen Diff - the stock Auburn uses clutch packs to provide limited slip. These do wear out leaving the tell-tale single wheel burn out. While not bullet proof, the Torsen uses worm gears, so at least you don't have to worry about failing clutches anymore.
* gears - Personally, I would never use Richmond gears. Too many problems from people I know. I chose US Strange as they have a reputation for being quiet and durable. GM/Motive are just as good.
* aftermarket LCA and Panhard bar - the better controlled the movement of the axle, the easier it is on the gears.
* fluid - I typically use a heavier weight fluid, 80w - 140. I may be increasing parasitic losses, but the extra protection "possibly" afforded is worth it to me.
Heck, I don't even know if these things did anything. However, after 13 years of abuse, I've had no issues. And yes, I chirp gears all the time, so I am not easy on the rear either. Will it fail? Eventually - but for now, it's just fine.
My 10-bolt is happy and quiet. About 13 years ago, I spent months talking to rear-end specialists, to see exactly what fails in these.
From then, I did the following:
* aluminum diff. cover - increases fluid capacity to "possibly" dissipate heat faster and also allows the use of external preload bearing studs to keep even pressure on the caps.
* bearing cap studs - I ditched the stretch-prone cap bolts and used ARP studs. It reinforces the cap preventing premature bearing failure.
* solid shims - by replacing the sloppy crush sleeve, it maintains the proper pinion to ring mesh. When the crush sleeve crushes beyond the original setup, you'll usually hear moaning first on decel, then total failure soon after.
* Torsen Diff - the stock Auburn uses clutch packs to provide limited slip. These do wear out leaving the tell-tale single wheel burn out. While not bullet proof, the Torsen uses worm gears, so at least you don't have to worry about failing clutches anymore.
* gears - Personally, I would never use Richmond gears. Too many problems from people I know. I chose US Strange as they have a reputation for being quiet and durable. GM/Motive are just as good.
* aftermarket LCA and Panhard bar - the better controlled the movement of the axle, the easier it is on the gears.
* fluid - I typically use a heavier weight fluid, 80w - 140. I may be increasing parasitic losses, but the extra protection "possibly" afforded is worth it to me.
Heck, I don't even know if these things did anything. However, after 13 years of abuse, I've had no issues. And yes, I chirp gears all the time, so I am not easy on the rear either. Will it fail? Eventually - but for now, it's just fine.
and well put.
07-20-2010, 01:15 PM
#68
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Yup, I sure did. Unfortunately, that caused me to make several thousand dollars in additional upgrade. I'll PM you a few shots of the parts you sold me in their new home.
07-20-2010, 01:31 PM
#69
07-20-2010, 02:11 PM
#70
Welding axle tubes to the pumpkin is standard issue and has been done since the 60s.No matter the make!
There are a bunch of people that have had good luck with the baby 10bolt and the rest are the reason these threads exist...M6 is the torture test!
The 7.5/7-5/8 rear end was originallyy designed for a Vega,Monza etc. None of which came with any substancial power. You can spend your hard earned cash on axles,carriers,girdles but all you are doing is placing a band-aid on the situation,the ring & pinion size is the problem especially when you move to 3.73,4.10 gears they literally fight one another upon acceleration thats what causes the teeth to break.
Burnouts are hard on the baby 10bolt especially when you roll out of the burnout box and the tires chirp.
So by the time you spend all that cash on upgraded parts you could have put a few more bucks together and ordered or built a rear that can handle the power.....Lastly if you are going to be making real power build the car from the rear foward.
There are a bunch of people that have had good luck with the baby 10bolt and the rest are the reason these threads exist...M6 is the torture test!
The 7.5/7-5/8 rear end was originallyy designed for a Vega,Monza etc. None of which came with any substancial power. You can spend your hard earned cash on axles,carriers,girdles but all you are doing is placing a band-aid on the situation,the ring & pinion size is the problem especially when you move to 3.73,4.10 gears they literally fight one another upon acceleration thats what causes the teeth to break.
Burnouts are hard on the baby 10bolt especially when you roll out of the burnout box and the tires chirp.
So by the time you spend all that cash on upgraded parts you could have put a few more bucks together and ordered or built a rear that can handle the power.....Lastly if you are going to be making real power build the car from the rear foward.
07-21-2010, 10:12 AM
#71
So by the time you spend all that cash on upgraded parts you could have put a few more bucks together and ordered or built a rear that can handle the power.....Lastly if you are going to be making real power build the car from the rear foward.[/QUOTE]
yea i started from the front. opps
yea i started from the front. opps
07-21-2010, 01:45 PM
#72
ive built cars from all ends and the middle..trust me its still a never ending cycle..
build from the rear right..so you get a 33 spline 9" an go oh ill never out grow that..then you get a trans built for 800hp with plane that your motor your going to build will make around that..couple months later when that motors built turns out you decided to make it more hard core and are spraying more to it or running more boost to it then your org thought and planed..so now you blow the trans..no biggie you build a glide for it now..whoops there gos that rear..then you build a rear..ok hell yeah more boost or n2o now..she can take it..boom..bigger badder engine now..YOU SEE ITS A NEVER ENDING CYCLE NO MATTER WHAT END YOU BUILD FROM.
It comes down to this..we are men and we will always want more power no matter what..its a gear heads drug.
build from the rear right..so you get a 33 spline 9" an go oh ill never out grow that..then you get a trans built for 800hp with plane that your motor your going to build will make around that..couple months later when that motors built turns out you decided to make it more hard core and are spraying more to it or running more boost to it then your org thought and planed..so now you blow the trans..no biggie you build a glide for it now..whoops there gos that rear..then you build a rear..ok hell yeah more boost or n2o now..she can take it..boom..bigger badder engine now..YOU SEE ITS A NEVER ENDING CYCLE NO MATTER WHAT END YOU BUILD FROM.
It comes down to this..we are men and we will always want more power no matter what..its a gear heads drug.
