jan231986

iTrader: (2)

Im having a 388 built and I already have the crank, piston rods setup and a few other parts. Im looking to make a bit over 500 to the wheels hopefully?
Im limiting myself to the stock 97 pcm and using a lt4 intake with a monoblade.
I currently have a 388 with AFR comp. 210 heads and the intake above and im having a fogger kit installed with it. The cam is the only thing im having a issue with, I dont have lots of money anymore and Im going to use a HR cam. So with that being said, it will probably be around a 245-255 duration with a .640ish+ lift with around a 111 lsa. I will be spraying a minimum of 250 and upping the ante if I can
I have seen many guys on here hitting the 9s with similar setups, so I know it can be done. Im having a th400 with a 4500 stall and 3.55 gears on a 12 bolt. MY car is already fully suspended and lightweight so I should have no problem hitting 10s N/A. DO you guys think that I will be good with my setup or having the stock pcm am I limited to making power? Im also doing away with the cps and installing a DR timing chain, with a ewp. I also figure 7000 will be my redline since the pcm limits me to 7200 anyway

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

I think your 500+rwhp goal with a TH400 and hydraulic cam is grossly unrealistic.

Are the heads ported?

For a goal like this you need ported heads, IMO you are starting with the wrong ones, but regardless you would need ported for this level.

10s NA with a 3.55 rear gear seems unrealistic too, I understand gearing it for the jug just saying that it will hurt you NA and your NA expectation is therefore unrealistic.

What you have hear is PERFECT in bench racing land but not going to work out in the real world, scale back the goals or step up to the right parts.

jan231986

iTrader: (2)

I guess you didnt read my post before you posted. I have seen you do this way to many times. Thats okay your probably drunk, I am and its a holiday so I will let ya slide
Yes they are AFR 210 competition ported heads!
ALso it should go 10s easy with a lightweight car, which mine is. BUt you never know I guess. Wheres the wrong parts?

AChotrod

iTrader: (17)

Sounds similar to what Im doing but Ill be running stock heads and fully expect 10s NA and 9s on the jug. Im doing a th350 and starting with 4.10s and will go to a 3.73 if I have too. Your LT4 intake wont reaaly help you. If it were me Id sell it(they go for big bucks) get a 93 intake and have it ported.

Larry's car is a prime example of what a similar build is capable of. 9.6s sounds lke a good goal to me!!

jan231986

iTrader: (2)

AFR heads 210 and larger NEED the lt4 intake, so I have to keep it. ALso if your using 4.10s I think you will hit the rev limiter and run out of motor to fast on the jug and not be able to run it full out. THats why I have a 3.55 gear for a 7000rpm limit. Hell N/A I will be using all of the gearing/motor. When spray is on I can still be within limitations. Now If I was using a Fast/Dfi I can use the 4.10 gear and spray through higher rpms no problem.

Puck

iTrader: (17)

I am not sure you are going completely in the right direct for such a build.

My stroker will be using hand ported AFR 220s...but with a single plane intake and aftermarket PCM. You will want the extra RPMs and tunability of an aftermarket computer system. I will also be going solid roller, and have the shaft mount rockers and valvetrain to support it.

You mention running out of money, but with a build of this caliber you really can't cut corners. Better to put it aside for now and wait for more disposable income.

I fully expect north of 600 flywheel hp NA and deep 10s, and look forward to people saying it wont be done.

MattSapp95_T/A

iTrader: (35)

Why do they "NEED" the LT4 intake....out of curiosity?

93Z2871805

iTrader: (5)

The larger AFRs are an LT4 based design, so they need an LT4 intake to match.

MattSapp95_T/A

iTrader: (35)

gotcha!

speed_demon24

iTrader: (6)

It won't be done.

red93z28lt1

I had considered going this route or a similar one however money tends to be a major part in this issue so its just getting cammed and headers and intake for now

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

AFR's porting does not count as proper porting.

Puck and I agree on little and even he and I are agreeing you are doing things wrong.

The LT4 intake is NOT larger internally without runner porting. As cast it is internally the same as an LT1 intake.

Go ahead and try to prove me wrong but you wouldn't be the first to send me a "you were right" private message after getting pissed off when I told you you had the wrong recipe. Go read another magazine and you will have it running 8s in no time.

DVS LT1

Those AFR 210 comp's are killer heads no matter what anyone says (assuming they are the new eliminators). I chatted with one of the very popular heads&cam shops on this forum (one of the big guys) and when I half seriously suggested doing some mods to my brand new AFR Eliminator 210 comps (#1101) they said don't even bother - those new eliminators are designed well the way they are. With a cam in the 650ish lift range they'll be feeding that big cube motor of yours alright...

If your suspension/chassis is setup right why shouldn't you be in the 10s? There's guys here with 450ish RWHP doing that. You may not show the 500 RWHP that you want on the dyno but who cares as long as the car is fast.

When I was planning my build years ago the advice I got from pretty much everyone was that to make 500 RWHP in an LT1 NA I'd have to go the solid roller route with a converted carb to EFI manifold & elbow setup. Maybe you could get to the 460-470+ RW range with your setup? Again who cares about dyno numbers so long as your car does what you want on at the track... the auto and big converter would be showing lower numbers on a dyno anyways.

PCM is another story too. I've got a pal that's been running DFI 7 on his crated C4 for years. He's always tuning that ****. I briefly looked into FAST or whatever PCM comp cams owns/offers but man was that expensive. Think my pcmforless tuned stock platform is fine for what I have at the moment - she spins to 7k no prob - but I've got a considerably smaller cam than the one you are talking about. I'd imagine you'd be making power beyond 7k with proper valve train control. These newer hydraulic rollers are doing some crazy things - lot of people can't believe my car is an hr cam that pulls right up to 7k. These new 210 eliminators have lighter 8mm valve stems eh, based on LSx architecture, which is a major reason why we can run/control such a big 2.08" valve with a hr setup. I'd throw AFR's hydra rev kit on there just to be safe and your springs are going to be out of this world (probably giving you seat pressures close to a solid roller anyways no? My builder thought I had ordered the wrong springs when he was measuring 150+ lbs closed and almost 420 lbs open pressure; he was like, "these are for a hydraulic cam???")


I'm definitely interested in what your car ends up putting down on a dyno and moreso numbers she runs at the strip. Aside from cam and converter stall it sounds like we have similar cars. I know the factory LT4 manifold becomes a bottle neck at some point but its always nice to see guys running it!

DVS LT1

Why would many consider these unrealistic goals? You seem to be doing everything needed to get you there. We know 500 RWHP NA with an LT1 is not easy, but its not impossible.

hitmanws6

iTrader: (20)

Clairfy who did the porting on the heads and go from there. It sounds like you want 3 motors in 1. A budget 388, a dyno queen and one that runs 10s at the track. You can have a budget 388, but you will be in the 11s. You need to do a lot more to get 500 especially through that drive train. I wouldnt focus too much on dyno numbers, they are just a tuning tool. More often than not when you choose to want a peak dyno number you wind up making your car slower. Case on point look at overcammed LS1s. Sure they are making 430 on stock heads but they are dogs to drive and race.

jan231986

iTrader: (2)

IN no way was I upset with you at all. IM sorry if I came off that way FIrst of all I had my car last year with the exact same setup but using le2 heads and I was running 11.06s all motor, all day. NOW I have a set of AFR 210s and will use a different HR cam. SO being in the 10s should be a breeze. I dont see why not?

What about using a lsx PCm conversion? Would that better suffice my build, utilizing a higher rpm. BUt then I would have to switch to a better manifold, elbow or carb setup make that power higher. Then I would have to get rails, SR cam, New fuel line setup to run to the new rails. Easy 2k + right there

jan231986

iTrader: (2)

AFR ported the heads and then A.I had reported them and blended the runners and claim they will be closer to 220s now after they have them finished. A dyno queen, definitely NOT. I dont own a supra! It will be a runner not a supra. I had a camaro making just shy over 500hp and running 10.6x all day. So dyno's dont mean **** in my book. LMAO

Puck

iTrader: (17)

This is true .

While I agree that the track is the real measure of performance, 560-570rwhp through a stalled auto with an NA Lt1 is just a dream and incredibly unlikely.

Because LT1s are slow! . Sadly the norm benchmark has become 400rwhp for LT1s - no matter stock cube, stroker, ported stockers, or aftermarket heads.

EDIT: BTW 10s are NEVER a breeze. You will need a lot of cash in the fuel system, drivetrain, valvetrain, and suspension to run 10's even remotely reliably.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

So now you are saying they are ported further than AFR's competition porting??

That is different from what you had been saying and admittedly a step in the right direction.

You may well get 10s NA but you will not get 500rwhp through a TH400 NA with a HR.

86formula

iTrader: (3)

so you're going to launch at like 5200 on spray with that stall and pull to 7k? not gonna work out the way you're hoping, ask me how i know