Car back from the mechanic - STILL won't shift while started
Woah. There seems to be a couple things going wrong this time. This is a new problem with the Competition Clutch that wasn't happening with the Ram Set Up. The fork "clip" is rubbing up against the pressure plate. What could have caused this? Im guessing the master cylinder was adjusted too high and pressed the fork against the pressure plate?
It was rubbing against this part of the fork:
Also, I don't see any type of "fork spring" - heres a picture of my fork setup:
My fork also still seems unusually sloppy, video:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3453/2sf.mp4
So where do I go from here? The fork obviously shouldn't be pressing against the pressure plate but I'm guessing the was from the master cylinder being adjusted too high.
It was rubbing against this part of the fork:
Also, I don't see any type of "fork spring" - heres a picture of my fork setup:
My fork also still seems unusually sloppy, video:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3453/2sf.mp4
So where do I go from here? The fork obviously shouldn't be pressing against the pressure plate but I'm guessing the was from the master cylinder being adjusted too high.
Last edited by Counted Out; Jan 2, 2011 at 06:33 PM.
Also, it looks like the retainer ring that holds the throw-out bearing into the pressure plate actually broke. I don't think this would be too much of an issue though as the fork should have been holding it all in place.
I doubt the fork will properly locate the TOB with out the retainer. I might have a spare retainer ring somewhere if you want me to look. This might be screwing up the self adjustment of the hydros. The wear marks are likely too much throw from the MC.
I have an extra pressure plate I can use, but I want to be sure of the problem before I start putting it back together.
What/where is the fork spring?
There is a "capturing" spring riveted to the fork. It ensures the fork is pivots properly on the t-fastener. It is not a return spring. It can be clearly be seen in one of the above pics and it looks good to me. If the spring described above is damaged, you will need another fork.
I thought that's what it was, but I wasn't sure. It seems to be fine.
Besides the marks on the pressure plate, everything that I checked seemed fine.
I really don't know where to go from here.
Besides the marks on the pressure plate, everything that I checked seemed fine.
I really don't know where to go from here.
Last edited by Counted Out; Jan 2, 2011 at 07:16 PM.
Woah. There seems to be a couple things going wrong this time. This is a new problem with the Competition Clutch that wasn't happening with the Ram Set Up. The fork "clip" is rubbing up against the pressure plate. What could have caused this? Im guessing the master cylinder was adjusted too high and pressed the fork against the pressure plate?
Edit- It is all too weird the clip broke since it carries no load whatsoever. Something sounds like it was not installed correctly.
Last edited by SS RRR; Jan 3, 2011 at 06:32 AM.
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Im also having the exact same problem my tranny is on the ground right now waiting for a new clutch to come in but here's my 2 cents.... I thought it may be the slave cylinder so I replaced that, didnt work then bought new master, still didnt work so I took out the clutch and noticed that the retaining ring wasnt even on the t.o.b one of the 3 clips on the t.o.b was broken, and because i kept driving on it like that having to force it into gear i burned up the clutch so I ordered a new clutch with new throwout bearing but my mechanic says he wants to check out the fork pads inside the tranny to make sure they're not shot which would also cause engagement issues I should have things worked out soon I'll update you on the progress if you guys havent figured it out by then.
No. Because of the fulcrim of the fork it should be able to clear the PP no matter what the position/angle. I had this happen with a Spec Stage 3+ PP. Found many others had the same problem. I had to grind some notches in the fork for it to clear. Without notching the clutch fork could cause the clutch not to fully disengage off the PP. As I said earlier in this thread my RAM also had dragging problems. From what I understand the only alternative is to get an adjustable clutch master cylinder, which looks as though you already have one. I'd put the RAM back in and try to adjust accordingly. Oh, and clean all that grease off the clutch splines, throwout bearing, your input shaft and anywhere else it was. All it is good for is getting slung around and attracting dust.
Edit- It is all too weird the clip broke since it carries no load whatsoever. Something sounds like it was not installed correctly.
Edit- It is all too weird the clip broke since it carries no load whatsoever. Something sounds like it was not installed correctly.
I am going to put the Ram back in and I'll wipe all the grease off (the write-up I read always said to use grease
) And I agree about something going wrong with the install causing the retainer clip to break, I'm just not sure what. Im also having the exact same problem my tranny is on the ground right now waiting for a new clutch to come in but here's my 2 cents.... I thought it may be the slave cylinder so I replaced that, didnt work then bought new master, still didnt work so I took out the clutch and noticed that the retaining ring wasnt even on the t.o.b one of the 3 clips on the t.o.b was broken, and because i kept driving on it like that having to force it into gear i burned up the clutch so I ordered a new clutch with new throwout bearing but my mechanic says he wants to check out the fork pads inside the tranny to make sure they're not shot which would also cause engagement issues I should have things worked out soon I'll update you on the progress if you guys havent figured it out by then.
Well I just bolted up my newly rebuilt tranny and I am going to run some tests before I continue to ensure I dont have the release problem. I also went with a new CC stage 2 clutch. I also notice that my retainer spring on my fork is a tad loose but from looking at it closely, it wont make a bit of difference. It looks to me that the retainer spring is mainly used to assist in setting the fork into the TOB and thats all.
I am going to have my wife hold the clutch down while its in gear and turn the drive shaft by hand. If it turns freely, all is good. If there is drag and rsistance, well then ****.
OP, if my clutch drags I am blaming it all on you and im coming after ya'.
I am going to have my wife hold the clutch down while its in gear and turn the drive shaft by hand. If it turns freely, all is good. If there is drag and rsistance, well then ****.
OP, if my clutch drags I am blaming it all on you and im coming after ya'.
Last edited by wrd1972; Jan 4, 2011 at 01:45 AM.
Well I just bolted up my newly rebuilt tranny and I am going to run some tests before I continue to ensure I dont have the release problem. I also went with a new CC stage 2 clutch. I also notice that my retainer spring on my fork is a tad loose but from looking at it closely, it wont make a bit of difference. It looks to me that the retainer spring is mainly used to assist in setting the for and thats all.
I am going to have my wife hold the clutch down while its in gear and turn the drive shaft by hand. If it turns freely, all is good. If there is drag and rsistance, well then ****.
OP, if my clutch drags I am blaming it all on you and im coming after ya'.
I am going to have my wife hold the clutch down while its in gear and turn the drive shaft by hand. If it turns freely, all is good. If there is drag and rsistance, well then ****.
OP, if my clutch drags I am blaming it all on you and im coming after ya'.
Let me know.
I'm removing the pilot bearing and I'm replacing it with a bushing. Then I'm going to put in the Ram PP and Ram disc and then adjust the master cylinder. I'm hoping to do this tomorrow and then I'll report back.
TECH Regular
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 492
Likes: 0
From: Rochester, NY
Seeing that your slave cylinder is capable of pushing the fork so far that it scratches the spinning pressure plate, I think its safe to say that your hydraulics are NOT the problem here.
I was kind of hoping you would have first bolted the slave on without its little metal housing so that you could see for yourself what exactly is going on inside your bellhousing BEFORE you started your car. I wanted you to sit under the car and watch while someone else sits in the car and pushes the pedal to confirm the fork was not being pushed into the pressure plate.
THIS MEANS YOU'VE GOT TWO OPTIONS HERE:
1) Grind down your fork at the points where it's making contact with the pressure plate and keep running the RAM or CC clutch. (What SS_RRR already told you a few posts ago).
The RAM and CC friction disks might be slightly 'thicker' than a stock disk and obviously have extra 'sticky' friction material. You'll need to do this to the fork because it actually needs the extra travel to pull the plates apart enough to prevent dragging.
2) ...or buy a new clutchfork, and switch over to a new stock pressure plate, throwout bearing, and friction disk.
Take a look at the tips of your fork where they 'pull' on the throwout bearing, I'm sure they'll look worn down a bit-- probably about 1/16". This is a small part of what was causing the need for your fork to be pushed so far to disengage the clutch. Pair that with a new stock clutch and the car will drive like it did when it was brand new.
My Spec 3+ was definitely thicker than my new CC disk.
THIS MEANS YOU'VE GOT TWO OPTIONS HERE:
1) Grind down your fork at the points where it's making contact with the pressure plate and keep running the RAM or CC clutch. (What SS_RRR already told you a few posts ago).
The RAM and CC friction disks might be slightly 'thicker' than a stock disk and obviously have extra 'sticky' friction material. You'll need to do this to the fork because it actually needs the extra travel to pull the plates apart enough to prevent dragging.
I just find it weird I'm having the same issue with two clutch sets.
TECH Regular
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 492
Likes: 0
From: Rochester, NY
If you swap in the RAM clutch and it still won't fully disengage, that's when you'll need to grind down your clutchfork. I cant remember exactly how much I ground off of my old worn down fork before I bought a new one, but I think it was somewhere in the ballpark of 1/8". Just use your best judgement and you'll be fine.
When you put it back in make sure it doesn't hit the pressure plate before you start the car obviously- if it does then back off the adjustable MC a bit till it doesn't.
After that start the car up and see how it drives, you'll probably have to do some fine adjusting on the MC again to get the engagement point in the right place. If the MC is adjusted too long still than the engagement point will be really high-- like at the end of the pedal travel. You'll want to shorten the MC enough to get the engagement more in the middle of the pedal travel.
Well my ride is back together.
My new CC stage 2 is working perfect. It passed the tests while in the air and during a test drive. It easily goes into all gears and is showing no ill behavior at all. On top of that, the thing drives damn smooth like a brand new car.
I still have all OEM hydros but I did install a brand new pressure plate. No other mods have been made to the clutch other than to reuse my old Corvette TOB that I tack welded the flange on to help prevent it from popping off.
OP, I really hope you figure this thing out ASAP. However I cant think of any advice to add other than what I have already. I know exactly how you feel, the LT1 clutch kicked my *** back (badly) many years ago and punished me with the exact same problems. Again it turned out to be difference in marcel disk thickness compressed vs. uncompressed. The difference there was just too large for the stock clutch components to overcome in terms of performing disk release.
My new CC stage 2 is working perfect. It passed the tests while in the air and during a test drive. It easily goes into all gears and is showing no ill behavior at all. On top of that, the thing drives damn smooth like a brand new car.
I still have all OEM hydros but I did install a brand new pressure plate. No other mods have been made to the clutch other than to reuse my old Corvette TOB that I tack welded the flange on to help prevent it from popping off.
OP, I really hope you figure this thing out ASAP. However I cant think of any advice to add other than what I have already. I know exactly how you feel, the LT1 clutch kicked my *** back (badly) many years ago and punished me with the exact same problems. Again it turned out to be difference in marcel disk thickness compressed vs. uncompressed. The difference there was just too large for the stock clutch components to overcome in terms of performing disk release.
If you swap in the RAM clutch and it still won't fully disengage, that's when you'll need to grind down your clutchfork. I cant remember exactly how much I ground off of my old worn down fork before I bought a new one, but I think it was somewhere in the ballpark of 1/8". Just use your best judgement and you'll be fine.