S10Wildside

I've been thinking for awhile about eliminating the IAT in the elbow and MAF ahead of the elbow and replacing them with a newer LS3 type MAF sensor. Should simply be a MAF frequency table update. Should know more soon.



This card-type MAF is production equipment on LS3 and newer engines. Also found in MANY passenger car applications.

nitrous2fast

iTrader: (2)

Why not just run a ls1 5 wire maf?

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

Betting you will find the LSx engines use a broader and higher frequency range meaning you will max this out pretty easily with the LT1 pcm's limited frequency range.

At one point I played with the ZO6 MAF and it maxes out at like 360gps where a good heads/cam motor can top 400gps.

Putting it in a different cross section than stock also completely throws the calibration out the window and you are starting from scratch.

fergymoto

iTrader: (129)

^I would imagine he is doing this for use with his 24x system, using the LSX PCM.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

Well that certainly would help make it work easier, no signature so I had no idea.

Still though my comment about starting over on the calibration when changing the cross section it is mounted in stands so expect to have to put some effort into tuning or send it out to a custom MAF shop with your intake tract and have them flow it and give you the chart.

TurboBob

iTrader: (1)

if that is closely coupled to the throttle body, then most likely you will have inconsistent readings at light throttle angles.

when the throttle is slightly opened, the blades 'sip' air around the edges, but further opened, the air is more laminar.

Not to mention that the throttle shaft is aligned with the sensor.

But, that said, it may work fine.... Be sure to post the results..

Bob

05HD

Agreed.

It would be alot easier to just do a speed density tune on that LS1 PCM.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

That is a good point, I had a cone with an inverted cone in the end mounted direct to the MAF and that screwed up the readings.

S10Wildside

Hi Guys - thanks for the replies.

I'll admit that I pretty much do all tunes as speed density, so I've not looked closely at the limits of the LT1 PCM. I figured the first thing to do is get the MAF in the elbow and go from there.

I am concerned about the MAF being so close to the throttle body. I'll probably compare results with the MAF ahead of the elbow as well. It's one of those things where I won't know until I try it out. If nothing else, I'll use the MAF as an IAT input only for the test stand. No biggie.

Slightly off topic, but I'm probably going to get some good testing in on the Gen IV ECMs. This MAF may be best suited for those ECMs anyway. In recent months I've gone from thinking "There's not that much reason to choose the Gen IV ECMs over the Gen III ECMs."...to..."There are some really cool features of the Gen IV ECMs that I'd like to play with." For example, I want to bring in a 4th gen F-Body this year with 4L60E and see about tap shift using all GM components.

But I think some LT1 PCM testing with this MAF is in order come spring. My brother-in-law has a 1995 Camaro, so I'll probably play with that.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

The LT1 pcm only registers up to 11216hz, I can't find my old copy of the ZO6 tables but I know that at 11200hz it was only up to 361gps or close to it.

The later MAFs offer greater resolution but max out so early you end up back in speed density at WOT anyway if you are making power with an LT1 pcm.

S10Wildside

Excellent info. Thank you.

Tbird232ci

iTrader: (4)

Also, would having the MAF directly on a bend be detrimental to the readings?

TurboBob

iTrader: (1)

all of the duct geometry contributes to the calibration of the reading.

If the duct is larger than a Z06, then the sensor will have more range, proportionate to the increase in area (all other things equal)

With the combination of the bend, the throttle, and the oval cross section, its hard to predict the actual flow to frequency characteristic.

I am curious how it will work..

Bob

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

I did a little research at one point and like I said there are custom MAF shops that if you send them your intake tract they can flow it and give you the new hz. chart. No idea what that cost.

Other way I could see doing it would be to put a stock MAF further upstream log that giving you a good idea what the gps is for set of conditions TPS/MAP/IAT and then log the LS3 sensor and change the tables to match.

T/A KID

iTrader: (12)

S10wildside, I have the EFI connection setup from you guys, but I am ditching my SD tune and going with the LS3/7 MAF sensor. Do you sell a plug and play adapter? I found some for the LS1 and LS2 guys, but nothing for the 3 wire LT1??

S10Wildside

There are several different EFI Connection "setups". You have the 24x system. Many are mistakenly calling the 24x conversion the "EFI Connection setup" or "EFI Connection conversion" or "EFI Connections".

We'll have to discuss outside the forum because EFI Connection is not a paying supporter of LS1Tech.com and cannot do business through the forum.

merim123

iTrader: (11)

with some of us running the ls1 lid setup, any chance of just a regular pipe with no bend?

v7guy

iTrader: (1)

so we never found out what happened with this?

S10Wildside

Not yet.

T/A KID

iTrader: (12)

I should be up and running with the LS3/7/9 MAF sensor next week. Whats great about this setup is you can use a larger tube (4 inch) with the card style MAF sensor and lower the frequency range staying within the LS1 12,000Hz limit even with big power (800rwhp from what I have seen). The trick is to scale the MAF frequency table, IFR, etc by the same percent so the ratio of air and fuel are the same still (just reading lower) staying under the 512g/s hard coded limit. Sounds tricky but is actually pretty easy .

No need for SD IMO.

BTW I don't really like the MAF in the bend of the elbow, had my boosted setup with an 85mm Z06 sensor after an 90 degree bend and it was hell to tune. I say it needs at least 4 inches of straight path before it enters the MAF sensor.