02v8ta

iTrader: (8)

With any luck, this winter before christmas i want to pick up a cheap lt1 camaro (or firebird =/) and start my first and what i think is a mild build to it. Just gotta watch craigslist for a couple months, i've seen them go cheap time to time. Anyway I want to make sure I have my goals and expectations right,(so go easy on me) and this thread will serve as a check list for me.

I want a close to 400 hp car or under, but i'm not concerned with numbers that much. I want to keep the stock rear & avoid a total tear down of the engine. I'm thinking a cam and head package from lloyd elliot. His 232/240 cam w/ LE1 heads seem about the area I want to head towards. I'd also think of going with a ported intake (don't think i'd need more for my power range?), 3.73 gears (looking for an auto unless a CHEAP m6 comes along) with a 3200-3600 stall?
Does this set up sound reasonable and able to avoid a total tear down if i get a good condition lt1(engine wise) Also, stupid questions i'm sure but i gotta ask.
1. would this set up still be able to run off pump gas? 93oct.
2. This wouldn't be a DD, but still streetable/weekend car?
3. What other components am i looking at replacing. I was thinking obviously rockers, rods?, timing chain?, and without saying the exhaust.....
Hopefully with your help I can actually get my first winter build going

bizerk1

1. yes
2. yes
3. ill let a more exp person answer this for you, but you should send the heads to AI because they have a machine( I wanted LE until a way more xp member told me this) that is able to make the heads even across the board, and are not done by hand like LE, someone else probably will explain that better. yes get a 3400stall, read the stickes on the top it will help you out and watch for cars on here too because the guys here are knowledgeable and are straight forward about the cars they sell

lt1slowz28

what's your budget. start there. then find a goal.


LE is cheaper and usually gets back to you quicker, AI is top notch top dollar. But they both can help point you in a good direction and have packages that can be tailored to suit your needs. Either one will net you 400 HP easily.



supporting mods
intake
exhaust
stall and cooler, call a company give them the build specs and let them help pick what's right.
fuel pump
injectors
all valve train stuff, lifters pushrods rockers/guide plates springs retainers timing chain and gears

TUNE

waterpump
rear end
built trans

not to mention all the pesky gaskets and seals.


if the engine is showing to be healthy then there is no real reason to break it down all the way, do it right whenever you do though.

02v8ta

iTrader: (8)

^Thanks

In my readings/search for the right cam/head package. It seems like the Comp cc306 was popular back years ago for a non custom grind, but it simply died off? Can't find a trace of it any more, what happened to it

Anyone have any thoughts on his (lloyd) cam 232/240 .578/574 110. ?
Seems about the area I want for this plus I noticed its comparable to the cc306.

Also this is news to me about getting the heads ported from lloyds, Does everyone on here just suggest to use him for custom grind? I noticed AI offers complete "kit's" for some of there cams. Depending on which one lloyd or ai, i go with might depend if the heads get ported right away or not...

lt1slowz28

the 306 is still a good cam for off the shelf, but custom grinds are so cheap nowadays why not go with something made for your combo specifically.

Lloyd's cam you mention is pretty popular as well, just gotta set some goals and figure out what exactly your definition of streetable may be I have my own and so does 95quicklt1... but he and I are on two very different levels of tolerance.

talk to both and see what they can quote you then pick one and choose your combo. Just don't forget the supporting mods, otherwise it will make for a less than enjoyable experience.

02v8ta

iTrader: (8)

I plan on giving them both a call eventually. and the cc306 though did they stop making them? Can't find them anywhere, were they replaced with something?

1963SS

If you're sold on the 306 cam then the part number is 07-306-8. But...as stated earlier you can get a heads/cam package that will out perform it from either Lloyd or Advanced induction. They both have dyno proven setups that would be a better choice IMHO.

Question 1 my answer is absolutely will run off pump gas

Question 2 I have ran more extreme cams and heads on a daily driver. There will be no problems.

I know you want to keep away from a total engine teardown but you are talking about changing rods. I would think you're very close to tearing the engine down. Although some have done it with no problems, I would never put in a cam that is going to require more stress on the cam bearings without changing the cam bearings. Many people have spun them doing just that.

I believe that if you get a LE2 heads/cam package it will come with the correct springs that are needed for the cam. No guessing and wondering if it was done right. Just the heads and cam should be fine on your stock bottom end if it is in good shape to start with. Good luck. ---Gunny---

Rob94hawk

iTrader: (1)

This. But just expect going over budget. Take it from experience. I just got my hawk running a few weeks ago and the minute you start tearing things down you start thinking "What if I replace this with...." Next thing you know you start getting dirty looks from your wife cause the UPS/Fedex guy is showing up more than he should be.

Focus on the engine first. Get it running. Everything else is secondary. Your nice 373's are gonna do you no good if you can't fire up the engine.

Best of luck

02v8ta

iTrader: (8)

Thanks guys, bearings are something i didn't consider. along with fuel pump and injectors. What size & pump do I need to look into for a 360-390 hp build?

Also the heads are more restrictive than the intake on the lt1 correct? Gotta pick one to take care of first.

mcalus

iTrader: (14)

I have heard the stock intake is good up to quite a bit of power. Plus it's much easier to pull off vs the heads.

Zlow28

iTrader: (11)

seems like youre getting the parts taking care of.
maybe this will help organize things a little bit:

Engine
TOP END:
1) cam
2) heads
3) rockers & studs
4) valve springs
5) lifters (optional)
6) pushrods
7) guideplates (depends)

BOTTOM END:
Seems like this is getting skipped

OTHER:
1) timing chain
2) cam & crank sprocket
3) oil pump
4) gaskets
5) opti, plugs, & wires (optional)

BOLT ONS:
1) torque converter
2) headers
3) gears
4) exhaust (for sound )
5) CAI (any cheap one)
6) Tune
7) LCAs & relocation brackets



i feel im forgetting something

02v8ta

iTrader: (8)

I want to cover the engine first then worry about the rear breaking
If I did find a m6 then I'd just have to swap out gearing correct?

Anyone idea on injectors and pump? Are we taking 30# injectors or more ?

gallardo259

I'm looking at some of the same things you are for my lt1. if you're going with the 232/240 cam, are le1 heads enough? also, can the stock bottom end be spun to 64-6500 rpm (llyod's recommended rpm range) "safely" or for how long?

02v8ta

iTrader: (8)

The le1 heads will do well with that cam, however probably do BEST with the le2 heads, maybe someone else can confirm that.

You shouldn't rev your car up to the cams recommended speed on a stock bottom end... You have a high chance of breaking it. But i'm sure someone will say "hey go for it" I wouldn't.




Now my question for you guys. I know a cams "peak power" is higher on the band, say 6200+ on these larger cams. Like the cc306, LE 232/240 cam or gm846 but if i never go past the 6000 rev limit (that's what i would want it limited to) How much power would i really be wasting? I don't want to max out a cam on my first install then upgrade down the road. I'd rather have a cam i'm not using to it's "full" potential and upgrade the rest of the car later. Does this make sense or no? I would want to safely run the cam and not use all it's power then upgrade the rear later. Again this will be my first build of any kind by myself.

RamAir95TA

iTrader: (2)

If you're not planning on spinning past 6000RPM, then there's absolutely no point in changing the heads and cam since the stock cam stops making power just shy of 6000RPM.

You're asking a cam to have two personalities. The 306 will be a dog from ~2000-4500 and won't max out until 6500+, easy.

If it's your first build, you need to build it once and build it right. Far too many times do unsure new builders make the decisions you're looking at doing only to regret it later on. Spend the money now on ONE BUILD.

Just sayin'.

02v8ta

iTrader: (8)

Yeah I hear you, trying to get all my ideas out here now so you guys can point me in the right area

What would be somewhat safe & not pushing it to much on the stock bottom end though, 6100, 6200? I can't see it being much more than that.

1963SS

A few questions come to mind. Do you want a car that is fast or do you want a car that sounds fast? If you get a heads/cam package either Lloyd Elliot or AI will design a cam around your specific needs. You are not limited to what you see on the website. Anything is possible. The max RPM you're going to be able to use on a stock bottom end is going to depend on what you find on Craigslist. If you buy a beater that wasn't taken care of then you'll probably blow it at 5000 RPM with the increased power. Nothing you buy is going to guarantee you the bearing clearances needed for over 6000 RPM operation.

You can pay attention to some of these posts or just pay later. Keep in mind that you will do 99.9% of your driving below 3000 RPM. Does it make any sense to design an engine that will make max power at 6000-6500 when it will be a dog most of the time. You will need to match your new torque converter ($500-$1000) to the specific goals for your engine.

Once you're in the over 6000 range your stock harmonic balancer will be taxed. For longevity you may consider an upgrade. I jst paid $370 for one and if there was a cheaper way that I thought acceptable I would have done it. I'll be starting my shifts at about 6700 and intend to check out the Opti's ability to run to 7200. I've heard rumors but I've never tried it.

I've witnessed many dyno runs where the power didn't increase much at all above 6000, depending on your cam. I've seen engines make 500 FWHP at 6000 and 510 at 6500. With most street cams you'll not be leaving anything on the table by shifting sooner. Of course thats just IMHO.

Good luck with the build. ---Gunny---

RamAir95TA

iTrader: (2)

For a stock bottom end 6400 is what I would keep it under, but generally most people agree that 6500 is the limit. A typical LE2/AI 190cc H/C package will do you well. Go with a custom grind cam from either company and tell them your desired RPM range then go from there.

02v8ta

iTrader: (8)

Can I get one that's choppy as heck but still performs well with stock bottom end if i go custom grind? I want to perform better than stock obviously but have a pretty nasty sound from the cam alone, then i'll worry about the exhaust work. Thanks for all the input.

So say I don't want it rev'd past 6100 on my set up or don't feel comfortable shifting it higher if i pick up a m6, they can tailor a cam that'll perform best for that shift point & recommend a good head set up I assume? I don't think I would need anything more than their LE1 heads.

lt1slowz28

why don't you actually contact either one and see what you guys can work out rather than speculate?