LTx Motown Block
Launching!
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
From: Capital region, NY
You guys are missing the point.
Years ago DART was going to do an LT1 block. They even started taking pre-orders then out of nowhere they scrapped the project. Nobody out there wants to take the risk of producing a block for us, understandably. One of our guys have been working on this deal with World for over 2 years, and this is currently the only option we have. We tried to test the waters a year or so ago and compiled a list of about 40 people that said they would buy a block TODAY if one were available. World told us that it would take a preorder of 120+ blocks up front at regular list price in order for them to do it and take the risk. We couldn't even get close.
The $70k is for tooling to get the block produced. In exchange for World not taking any risk in this project, they offered to sell the first 200 blocks at a discounted rate. THEY ARE NOT DOING A RUN OF 200 BLOCKS right off the bat. If they did, they would most likely be sitting on a bunch of them for quite some time.
Again, this is the only option we have. Just to prep a stock block to handle even a moderate amount of power costs what this block will cost, and this block will take the LT1 platform to another level. So if you would like to see what this block could really do, please donate if you can spare $20. That's all we are asking for. It may take a little while to come up with the money, but it will definitely be worth it in the end.
Thank you,
Years ago DART was going to do an LT1 block. They even started taking pre-orders then out of nowhere they scrapped the project. Nobody out there wants to take the risk of producing a block for us, understandably. One of our guys have been working on this deal with World for over 2 years, and this is currently the only option we have. We tried to test the waters a year or so ago and compiled a list of about 40 people that said they would buy a block TODAY if one were available. World told us that it would take a preorder of 120+ blocks up front at regular list price in order for them to do it and take the risk. We couldn't even get close.
The $70k is for tooling to get the block produced. In exchange for World not taking any risk in this project, they offered to sell the first 200 blocks at a discounted rate. THEY ARE NOT DOING A RUN OF 200 BLOCKS right off the bat. If they did, they would most likely be sitting on a bunch of them for quite some time.
Again, this is the only option we have. Just to prep a stock block to handle even a moderate amount of power costs what this block will cost, and this block will take the LT1 platform to another level. So if you would like to see what this block could really do, please donate if you can spare $20. That's all we are asking for. It may take a little while to come up with the money, but it will definitely be worth it in the end.
Thank you,
But I do see your point that world won't make the block if the money for the tooling is not raised. Quite shitty of World really. A big cube LT would be cool but I'm just not sure I want to donate money to a company who will then use that donation to make LOTS more money off my dime.
I definitely see the point but what I'm saying is that if World is not willing the take the risk they shouldn't be making so much on each block. I get they are discounting the blocks AT FIRST but not for the life of the product. I think they should be sold at "the cost of producing the block" + "a small flat rate world makes on each block" (For the cost of doing business). Instead, after the cheap clocks are gone World jacks the price back up to where their other blocks prices are. (Other blocks that world developed with their own money so understandably they have to make their money back). In this case they don't. This is like buying a cow FOR McDonalds then having to buy the hamburger after they process the cow and then they continue to make money off the cow you bought them by selling more burgers to other people. (Sorry for the food reference, It's dinnertime and I haven't eaten yet) I'm just looking out for myself, the consumer.
But I do see your point that world won't make the block if the money for the tooling is not raised. Quite shitty of World really. A big cube LT would be cool but I'm just not sure I want to donate money to a company who will then use that donation to make LOTS more money off my dime.
But I do see your point that world won't make the block if the money for the tooling is not raised. Quite shitty of World really. A big cube LT would be cool but I'm just not sure I want to donate money to a company who will then use that donation to make LOTS more money off my dime.
When you put a product like this into production, it has to consistently sell. Besides the initial cost of tooling, you have to pay employees, electricity, rent, taxes, insurance, machine repair cost, packaging, shipping, raw materials, and on top of that you're going to want to pay yourself for all the time and hard work put in.
Here's an example off the top of my head. $70k in tooling cost is just the initial cost, lets say it cost $10k a month to run this operation, which is on the cheap side with a business like this. That means if they want to break even in lets say 3 years and actually start making profit, they have to make $430k in GROSS profit in those three years, that's almost $12k a month in gross profit they need to bring in. I have no idea what their margins and they will be effected by production (the more produced at a time, the higher the profit margin), but lets says its 40% cost, 60% profit with each unit. After the math that means they need to sell $20k worth in blocks, or at their asking price of $2800, 7.14 units per month in order to break even and turn a profit in 3 years with using very conservative numbers. Now does anyone really think that 7 people per month are going to put up the extra money to buy this over an LSX block, I say it's a long shot.
Here's an example off the top of my head. $70k in tooling cost is just the initial cost, lets say it cost $10k a month to run this operation, which is on the cheap side with a business like this. That means if they want to break even in lets say 3 years and actually start making profit, they have to make $430k in GROSS profit in those three years, that's almost $12k a month in gross profit they need to bring in. I have no idea what their margins and they will be effected by production (the more produced at a time, the higher the profit margin), but lets says its 40% cost, 60% profit with each unit. After the math that means they need to sell $20k worth in blocks, or at their asking price of $2800, 7.14 units per month in order to break even and turn a profit in 3 years with using very conservative numbers. Now does anyone really think that 7 people per month are going to put up the extra money to buy this over an LSX block, I say it's a long shot.
When you put a product like this into production, it has to consistently sell. Besides the initial cost of tooling, you have to pay employees, electricity, rent, taxes, insurance, machine repair cost, packaging, shipping, raw materials, and on top of that you're going to want to pay yourself for all the time and hard work put in.
Here's an example off the top of my head. $70k in tooling cost is just the initial cost, lets say it cost $10k a month to run this operation, which is on the cheap side with a business like this. That means if they want to break even in lets say 3 years and actually start making profit, they have to make $430k in GROSS profit in those three years, that's almost $12k a month in gross profit they need to bring in. I have no idea what their margins and they will be effected by production (the more produced at a time, the higher the profit margin), but lets says its 40% cost, 60% profit with each unit. After the math that means they need to sell $20k worth in blocks, or at their asking price of $2800, 7.14 units per month in order to break even and turn a profit in 3 years with using very conservative numbers. Now does anyone really think that 7 people per month are going to put up the extra money to buy this over an LSX block, I say it's a long shot.
Here's an example off the top of my head. $70k in tooling cost is just the initial cost, lets say it cost $10k a month to run this operation, which is on the cheap side with a business like this. That means if they want to break even in lets say 3 years and actually start making profit, they have to make $430k in GROSS profit in those three years, that's almost $12k a month in gross profit they need to bring in. I have no idea what their margins and they will be effected by production (the more produced at a time, the higher the profit margin), but lets says its 40% cost, 60% profit with each unit. After the math that means they need to sell $20k worth in blocks, or at their asking price of $2800, 7.14 units per month in order to break even and turn a profit in 3 years with using very conservative numbers. Now does anyone really think that 7 people per month are going to put up the extra money to buy this over an LSX block, I say it's a long shot.
Dude... World Products manufactures hundreds of different products. This is not the only thing they are producing. Once the tooling is paid for, the only time they have to cover overhead costs is when they are actually producing that particular product. The rest of the time the tooling is going to sit on a shelf, just like the rest of the stuff they have that isn't being used at that time. It's costing them an extremely low amount (pennies) to have it taking up shelf space next to other tooling. They are consistently making blocks and heads and other products for other platforms. I'm glad you can do math, but it doesn't exactly apply in this case. World has already committed to this project if the tooling cost is covered.
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Verdad Gallardo Dude... World Products manufactures hundreds of different products. This is not the only thing they are producing. Once the tooling is paid for, the only time they have to cover overhead costs is when they are actually producing that particular product. The rest of the time the tooling is going to sit on a shelf, just like the rest of the stuff they have that isn't being used at that time. It's costing them an extremely low amount (pennies) to have it taking up shelf space next to other tooling. They are consistently making blocks and heads and other products for other platforms. I'm glad you can do math, but it doesn't exactly apply in this case. World has already committed to this project if the tooling cost is covered.
I just love the whole glass is half empty mindset some people in this world have.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 369
Likes: 3
From: Murica
Have you guys seen World's operation, and seen what all needs to be changed to produce an LT1 block from what they currently have?? No? I didn't think so. This is the only option we have, so that is what we are running with. This is the closest we have EVER come to having a good block produced.
I just love the whole glass is half empty mindset some people in this world have.
I just love the whole glass is half empty mindset some people in this world have.
Last edited by Dirty_Bird; Nov 14, 2016 at 08:33 PM.
Launching!
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
From: Capital region, NY
Have you guys seen World's operation, and seen what all needs to be changed to produce an LT1 block from what they currently have?? No? I didn't think so. This is the only option we have, so that is what we are running with. This is the closest we have EVER come to having a good block produced.
I just love the whole glass is half empty mindset some people in this world have.
I just love the whole glass is half empty mindset some people in this world have.
They get to charge normal rates for the block when the "normal rate" includes a certain amount of additional "profit" so they can recoup the money they paid to make the tooling. In this case they didn't pay for tooling so they are making MUCHO BUCKS on every block that is full priced. (again I know they discounted the first blocks but it won't last forever)If you really think World isn't going to make more money on each block at full price than a block they built the tooling for then you have no idea how business works....
World would NOT agree to this unless it benefited them greatly. And look! IT DOES!(The last part was not aimed at you specifically, just the people who think World is doing this "Out of the goodness of their own hearts")
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However, it's still not good business for a big company like that to foist the risk onto customers. Especially when there's only a select number actually willing to buy an aftermarket block, and then having them pay tooling costs too? It's almost insulting. It's great you've managed to get it going thus far, but to get all huffy at the LTX community when they point out the flaws in this business model is just ridiculous.
I'm not a hardcore LT1 guy, but if an aftermarket block did come on the market, I would honestly consider buying one, because we'd probably never see it again. However, I'm not going to pay for tooling costs. Some might, and that's great. You should just realize most of us don't want to.
Have you? I really doubt its a huge deal to change over production to another block. They have to do it to create their others blocks don't they? I seriously doubt they have specific machines for every block. EVERY manufacturing business does this. They produce some products them switch that line over to another product for awhile. It's certainly something World does all the time I would be willing to bet. Maybe less so than a company like Delphi or MOOG BUT still more often than you make it sound. You make it sound like its a MASSIVE inconvenience to World. I saw hardly. ESPECIALLY if they are going to be making Mucho bucks on each block because they got to develop the block FOR FREE and they don't have to recoup ANY MONEY. They get to charge normal rates for the block when the "normal rate" includes a certain amount of additional "profit" so they can recoup the money they paid to make the tooling. In this case they didn't pay for tooling so they are making MUCHO BUCKS on every block that is full priced. (again I know they discounted the first blocks but it won't last forever)
If you really think World isn't going to make more money on each block at full price than a block they built the tooling for then you have no idea how business works.... World would NOT agree to this unless it benefited them greatly. And look! IT DOES!
(The last part was not aimed at you specifically, just the people who think World is doing this "Out of the goodness of their own hearts")
__________________________________________________ _________________________________________
They get to charge normal rates for the block when the "normal rate" includes a certain amount of additional "profit" so they can recoup the money they paid to make the tooling. In this case they didn't pay for tooling so they are making MUCHO BUCKS on every block that is full priced. (again I know they discounted the first blocks but it won't last forever)If you really think World isn't going to make more money on each block at full price than a block they built the tooling for then you have no idea how business works....
World would NOT agree to this unless it benefited them greatly. And look! IT DOES!(The last part was not aimed at you specifically, just the people who think World is doing this "Out of the goodness of their own hearts")
__________________________________________________ _________________________________________
I know exactly how business works, I've owned my own successful business for 8 years now. I also know how manufacturing works from past jobs. They are not going to get rich producing an LTx block, and they know that. They are offering a $1000discount from list price for the first 200blocks produced, as a way to offset them collecting the deposit for tooling. If we as a community take advantage of that then we would get the most bang for the buck. If we do end up raising the money then they only sell 30 or 40 blocks, then they were able to cover their *** and they didn't lose any money doing the project. It makes perfect sense from both sides perspective.
We get it. This is the only way World would agree to the plan. I don't blame them for not wanting to take the risk since an aftermarket block has failed in the past for lack of support. We're talking about a very niche market here, and they're a business.
However, it's still not good business for a big company like that to foist the risk onto customers. Especially when there's only a select number actually willing to buy an aftermarket block, and then having them pay tooling costs too? It's almost insulting. It's great you've managed to get it going thus far, but to get all huffy at the LTX community when they point out the flaws in this business model is just ridiculous.
I'm not a hardcore LT1 guy, but if an aftermarket block did come on the market, I would honestly consider buying one, because we'd probably never see it again. However, I'm not going to pay for tooling costs. Some might, and that's great. You should just realize most of us don't want to.
However, it's still not good business for a big company like that to foist the risk onto customers. Especially when there's only a select number actually willing to buy an aftermarket block, and then having them pay tooling costs too? It's almost insulting. It's great you've managed to get it going thus far, but to get all huffy at the LTX community when they point out the flaws in this business model is just ridiculous.
I'm not a hardcore LT1 guy, but if an aftermarket block did come on the market, I would honestly consider buying one, because we'd probably never see it again. However, I'm not going to pay for tooling costs. Some might, and that's great. You should just realize most of us don't want to.
I do realize that some of you do not want to help pay for tooling. I get that. I'm just trying to explain the reasoning behind why it is what it is. I'm not getting huffy, I'm just trying to put the naysayers at ease. This is a frustrating subject for some of us, and lots of time and effort has been spent trying to get this far. We finally have an avenue and then people try to come in here and shoot it down.
If you don't want to help that's fine, you don't have to. Nobody is holding a gun to your head. Just don't hold it against the ones that do want to help, or the ones that have gotten the project this far.
Thanks.
I'm not a fan of World products, their LSx block was a bust, tons of people had issues with them. I think you'd be better off getting a better mfg. I'd never buy a world product after what they did to the LSx community. Just my .02
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Originally Posted by Henry Hill
Now the guy's got Paulie as a partner. Any problems, he goes to Paulie. Trouble with the bill? He can go to Paulie. Trouble with the cops, deliveries, Tommy, he can call Paulie. But now the guy's gotta come up with Paulie's money every week, no matter what. Business bad? "**** you, pay me." Oh, you had a fire? "**** you, pay me." Place got hit by lightning, huh? "**** you, pay me." Also, Paulie could do anything. Especially run up bills on the joint's credit. And why not? Nobody's gonna pay for it anyway. And as soon as the deliveries are made in the front door, you move the stuff out the back and sell it at a discount. You take a two hundred dollar case of booze and you sell it for a hundred. It doesn't matter. It's all profit. And then finally, when there's nothing left, when you can't borrow another buck from the bank or buy another case of booze, you bust the joint out. You light a match.
Haven't seen you around lately. Were you discharged from the nuthouse or did you break out?