Oil pan and valve cover oil leaks
11-17-2018, 06:22 AM
#1
Oil pan and valve cover oil leaks hey guys,
been chasing a severe oil leak for a couple years now. I’ve got the engine out for the 4th time in 3 years now. My engine builder says it’s the oil pan and valve covers. I did replace the oil pan last year with I believe a Dorman one and a felpro gasket.
Vakve covers are an eBay buy with felpro gaskets aswell.
Engine is not stroked, I have a Melling HV pump. Any suggestions for uograding the oil pan and/or valve covers? I have the LTCC so I still need the bolts for mounting the coils. Moroso, canton? What are good brands with are not prone to leaking
been chasing a severe oil leak for a couple years now. I’ve got the engine out for the 4th time in 3 years now. My engine builder says it’s the oil pan and valve covers. I did replace the oil pan last year with I believe a Dorman one and a felpro gasket.
Vakve covers are an eBay buy with felpro gaskets aswell.
Engine is not stroked, I have a Melling HV pump. Any suggestions for uograding the oil pan and/or valve covers? I have the LTCC so I still need the bolts for mounting the coils. Moroso, canton? What are good brands with are not prone to leaking
11-17-2018, 07:19 AM
#2
IMHO, the OE parts have been well designed by GM, to provide trouble-free service. Keep in mind, that they warrantied this engine for 36 months/36,000 miles, when the vehicle was new. My point is that they didn't want to be covering warranty charges for leaks, so they manufactured the parts accordingly.
If you have had the engine apart, several times, however, I'd be using a known straight edge, to make sure that the flanges on your pan and valve covers are flat and true, for their entire lengths. OE valve cover edges can get a little funky, especially if they have been overtorqued. Make sure that you tighten them to spec, and not more. (IIRC, the spec is 106 in/lbs.) The same goes for the oil pan, Make sure the flange is flat, and use the FelPro gasket that has the steel inserts in it, as this prevents you from over crushing the gasket, again, as long as you apply the proper torque. Any warpage can be fixed by CAREFUL use of a pair of channel lock pliers.
FWIW, I tried to use a pair of the "cool looking", Proform black crinkle finished valve covers, but they were junk. They have no internal ribbing, for rigidity, so you can't torque them properly, and they leaked.
If you have had the engine apart, several times, however, I'd be using a known straight edge, to make sure that the flanges on your pan and valve covers are flat and true, for their entire lengths. OE valve cover edges can get a little funky, especially if they have been overtorqued. Make sure that you tighten them to spec, and not more. (IIRC, the spec is 106 in/lbs.) The same goes for the oil pan, Make sure the flange is flat, and use the FelPro gasket that has the steel inserts in it, as this prevents you from over crushing the gasket, again, as long as you apply the proper torque. Any warpage can be fixed by CAREFUL use of a pair of channel lock pliers.
FWIW, I tried to use a pair of the "cool looking", Proform black crinkle finished valve covers, but they were junk. They have no internal ribbing, for rigidity, so you can't torque them properly, and they leaked.
Last edited by leadfoot4; 11-17-2018 at 07:25 AM.
11-17-2018, 10:32 AM
#3
Village Troll 
iTrader: (2)
- Clean the engine until it's spotless with no oil residue anywhere. Simple Green works well.
- Drive car around for a few days.
- Once engine is cold feel around ALL gasket mating surfaces with your hand starting from the top down.
- Once you hit oil, trace it back to the source.
- Usually the back of the intake leaks and can act like a valve cover and/or oil pan leak.
11-17-2018, 02:56 PM
#4
OP
You are better off using factory oil pan (or Doorman) and valve covers. You do need (highly recommended) using RTV (Permatex black "ultra") on the corners front & rear where the radius meets the flat part of the block on the pan. On VC I have never needed any RTV. FelPro gaskets for both
As noted first confirm the leak is from either VC or pan gasket. It is way more common for the rear intake leaking and oil migrating down making it appear to be from pan
IDK about the LTCC coil mount but assume its bracket uses the center bolts of a stock valve cover and "should" allow proper TQ to seal VC...assuming the VC have not been deformed.
Clean motor well and look carefully for source of core leak. You can also use oil dye and black light. The leak will appear neon green using the glasses that come in the oil dye kit
On oil pan you do need the 2 rails between bolt & pan so you don't deform the pan holes. Stubborn cases you can RTV between block & gasket...PIA to remove pan later but a last ditch way of stopping pan leaks if it comes to that
You are better off using factory oil pan (or Doorman) and valve covers. You do need (highly recommended) using RTV (Permatex black "ultra") on the corners front & rear where the radius meets the flat part of the block on the pan. On VC I have never needed any RTV. FelPro gaskets for both
As noted first confirm the leak is from either VC or pan gasket. It is way more common for the rear intake leaking and oil migrating down making it appear to be from pan
IDK about the LTCC coil mount but assume its bracket uses the center bolts of a stock valve cover and "should" allow proper TQ to seal VC...assuming the VC have not been deformed.
Clean motor well and look carefully for source of core leak. You can also use oil dye and black light. The leak will appear neon green using the glasses that come in the oil dye kit
On oil pan you do need the 2 rails between bolt & pan so you don't deform the pan holes. Stubborn cases you can RTV between block & gasket...PIA to remove pan later but a last ditch way of stopping pan leaks if it comes to that
11-18-2018, 07:25 AM
#5
I’ve taken a straight edge to the oil pan confirming straight edges and also ran factory torque specs. I did use some RTV on the pan corners.
After taking the VC off I noticed oil near the back of them on the outside which it causing me to think that’s one cause.
Ive tried the oil dye three times now with no luck, because it’s hard to even see behind the engine with it’s in the car running. I even ran the car with no transmission, with hopes of finding a cause.
The back of the intake has RTV pushed out all the way across and is dry.
The oil gets severely worse when the car is running at high RPMs not sure if that changes anything?
i will take a straight end to these VC and see what I can find. The alternator is removed so im not limited to VC brands etc.
ive replaces the RMS three times now as well. I have also used the felpro “rubber type” RMS gasket, as I believe there is actuallly two made for our cars. Is the other one better?
After taking the VC off I noticed oil near the back of them on the outside which it causing me to think that’s one cause.
Ive tried the oil dye three times now with no luck, because it’s hard to even see behind the engine with it’s in the car running. I even ran the car with no transmission, with hopes of finding a cause.
The back of the intake has RTV pushed out all the way across and is dry.
The oil gets severely worse when the car is running at high RPMs not sure if that changes anything?
i will take a straight end to these VC and see what I can find. The alternator is removed so im not limited to VC brands etc.
ive replaces the RMS three times now as well. I have also used the felpro “rubber type” RMS gasket, as I believe there is actuallly two made for our cars. Is the other one better?
11-18-2018, 09:28 AM
#6
Village Troll
iTrader: (2)
That’s why I said to clean the engine and then look for leaks by feel instead of using a dye. If the perimiter of the cylinder head, where the valve cover seats is wet with oil then you can pretty much assume they are leaking for some reason. Perhaps the gasket pushes out of the VC track when they are torqued onto the head. Take an angled mirror and check the underside of the valve cover around the lip and see if the gasket is seated over the mating surface of the head. Fix that issue and then concentrate your efforts on the oil pan. Oil flow and oil vapor do intensify with higher RPM.
11-18-2018, 10:31 AM
#7
TECH Addict
Check/Replace the PCV valve. If that's not working correctly it'll leak all over the place (and your oil will not last as long either). You can also check blow by on the rings with a dry and wet compression test and a leak down check.
My Camaro would push the dipstick out at high RPMs and shoot oil out of it, it was a bad PCV that caused it.
My Camaro would push the dipstick out at high RPMs and shoot oil out of it, it was a bad PCV that caused it.
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11-18-2018, 10:40 AM
#8
Ill give those ideas a try guys! Sounds like OEM is the way to go for parts I guess, which makes sense. The heads are aftermarket so I’ll see what I can figure out.
I do have a brand new Mighty Mouse catch can on the car for now. Was wondering about the crankcase being pressurized if I have the can hooked up
wrong. I did confirm with Mighty Mouse owner that I have it hooked up right!
I do have a brand new Mighty Mouse catch can on the car for now. Was wondering about the crankcase being pressurized if I have the can hooked up
wrong. I did confirm with Mighty Mouse owner that I have it hooked up right!
12-10-2018, 02:01 PM
#9
The only sure fire way I've realized to eliminate oil pan leaks is to use RTV. Yes, even with a 1-piece felpro gasket.
it isn't re-usable afterwards, but if you don't plan on re-doing anything then it will work and you won't have any leaks.
RTV on both sides, skim coat for the flat portions and small bead on the U ends. and the corners, of course. This has sealed up lt1 corvette, camaro, and camaro canton pans with zero leaks.
it isn't re-usable afterwards, but if you don't plan on re-doing anything then it will work and you won't have any leaks.
RTV on both sides, skim coat for the flat portions and small bead on the U ends. and the corners, of course. This has sealed up lt1 corvette, camaro, and camaro canton pans with zero leaks.
12-11-2018, 01:27 AM
#10
The only sure fire way I've realized to eliminate oil pan leaks is to use RTV. Yes, even with a 1-piece felpro gasket.
it isn't re-usable afterwards, but if you don't plan on re-doing anything then it will work and you won't have any leaks.
RTV on both sides, skim coat for the flat portions and small bead on the U ends. and the corners, of course. This has sealed up lt1 corvette, camaro, and camaro canton pans with zero leaks.
it isn't re-usable afterwards, but if you don't plan on re-doing anything then it will work and you won't have any leaks.
RTV on both sides, skim coat for the flat portions and small bead on the U ends. and the corners, of course. This has sealed up lt1 corvette, camaro, and camaro canton pans with zero leaks.
