Clutch pedal "snapped" to the floor and stranded, rattling noise?
06-06-2019, 02:08 PM
#1
Clutch pedal "snapped" to the floor and stranded, rattling noise? I was cruising along and went to change gear. The clutch pedal popped, lost pressure and went straight to the floor. Immediately I figured my master/ slave went out on me, I check under the car and sure enough there is a little puddle where the slave is.
What I don't understand is when I fire up the car in neutral it makes a rattling noise as if something is bouncing around in the bellhousing, any clues?
I'm currently stranded 40 miles from home but want to see if anyone would know so I can get this thing apart and buy parts ASAP. Thanks guys.
What I don't understand is when I fire up the car in neutral it makes a rattling noise as if something is bouncing around in the bellhousing, any clues?
I'm currently stranded 40 miles from home but want to see if anyone would know so I can get this thing apart and buy parts ASAP. Thanks guys.
06-06-2019, 02:12 PM
#2
Village Troll 
iTrader: (2)
Dimes to dollars your throwout bearing is broke. May have taken the slave cylinder with it. There have been problems with TOB's for the cars due to poor quality, or if it was stock, it was just time to let go...
I wouldn't try and drive it. That rattling could serve as shrapnel if it gets caught in the flywheel and send it through the bellhousing.
I wouldn't try and drive it. That rattling could serve as shrapnel if it gets caught in the flywheel and send it through the bellhousing.
06-06-2019, 02:25 PM
#3
Yeah I was just reading it may be a possibility in another thread quoted below. That would be annoying but oh well, I just put in a new torque arm in the other week and it'd be funny to have to pull everything apart again.
jack up the car on stands, remove the slave (part attached to bellhousing) by removing the 2 nuts holding it on. Now slide off the slave spacer. You will see the clutch fork which should be positioned like the pic attached. If it has a bunch of slop you either:
broke/bent fork
broke pivot bolt fork ride on
Throw Out bearing broke (lip peeled up or broke off).
3rd point is what I would "guess" happened. Your tranny will need to be pulled to fix any of the above with the 3rd point meaning the clutch needs to come out to replace TO bearing.
SPEC reports they now offer a "better" TO bearing for their LT1 clutches than they previously offered
beyond that the clutch could have failed but hydraulics, fork or TO bearing failure are more likely
broke/bent fork
broke pivot bolt fork ride on
Throw Out bearing broke (lip peeled up or broke off).
3rd point is what I would "guess" happened. Your tranny will need to be pulled to fix any of the above with the 3rd point meaning the clutch needs to come out to replace TO bearing.
SPEC reports they now offer a "better" TO bearing for their LT1 clutches than they previously offered
beyond that the clutch could have failed but hydraulics, fork or TO bearing failure are more likely
06-06-2019, 03:38 PM
#4
OP
The quote of mine in your post is what I would have said now...
If you pull the slave the clutch fork is likely just flopping around because of points 2 & 3 I made in that response
The fluid puddle you have is likely from slave which will need replacing. FWIW I have bought the exact same OEM slave from O'Rielys under their store brand packageing
The quote of mine in your post is what I would have said now...
If you pull the slave the clutch fork is likely just flopping around because of points 2 & 3 I made in that response
The fluid puddle you have is likely from slave which will need replacing. FWIW I have bought the exact same OEM slave from O'Rielys under their store brand packageing
06-06-2019, 04:34 PM
#6
Thank you gentlemen, I just got home after a friendly ride with a tow truck driver.
The way it happened now that I'm thinking about it is I had that initial pop, clutch went to the floor. I shut the engine off immediately and pushed it into a parking space (Happening in a parking lot thankfully). I fired the engine up out of gear and thats when the rattling started, I tried pushing the pedal in again and it popped again and had zero resistance, I could hear the hiss of fluid escaping.
So assuming this is worst case scenario and the TOB/ fork needs to be changed, I have another issue I need guidance on. This LT1 has a solid oil leak coming from somewhere behind the engine, it doesn't seem like the back of the valve covers as I've felt around there quite a bit. Every once in a while I'd get a little puff of smoke from under the hood sitting a light idling. I'd like to fix this because unless I'm mistaken, it can foul up the clutch if I decide to replace it right? Time to do some digging and see what I can do without pulling the engine because that would be a last resort at the moment, I'd like to fix the leak regardless if this happened of course but I was taking my sweet time with it. If this gives any clues my clutch started chattering upon release about a month ago, I assumed it was due to the oil leak.
Also, the last time I changed a transmission on an LT1 car I remember buying the MC/ clutch as one unit (Especially to avoid bleeding as I'd seen a lot of threads with people having issues), but the places I've checked so far (Rockauto/ Autozone) only sell them separately? Edit: Missed it when checking on my phone but just found it on Rockauto.
The way it happened now that I'm thinking about it is I had that initial pop, clutch went to the floor. I shut the engine off immediately and pushed it into a parking space (Happening in a parking lot thankfully). I fired the engine up out of gear and thats when the rattling started, I tried pushing the pedal in again and it popped again and had zero resistance, I could hear the hiss of fluid escaping.
So assuming this is worst case scenario and the TOB/ fork needs to be changed, I have another issue I need guidance on. This LT1 has a solid oil leak coming from somewhere behind the engine, it doesn't seem like the back of the valve covers as I've felt around there quite a bit. Every once in a while I'd get a little puff of smoke from under the hood sitting a light idling. I'd like to fix this because unless I'm mistaken, it can foul up the clutch if I decide to replace it right? Time to do some digging and see what I can do without pulling the engine because that would be a last resort at the moment, I'd like to fix the leak regardless if this happened of course but I was taking my sweet time with it. If this gives any clues my clutch started chattering upon release about a month ago, I assumed it was due to the oil leak.
Last edited by nitroheadz28; 06-06-2019 at 04:46 PM.
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06-07-2019, 12:19 PM
#8
OP
it sounds like your tranny needs to come out to fix what sounds like a broken TO bearing which then allowed the slave piston to over extend when you pushed the clutch in again and it puked its hydraulic fluid. Or your clutch fork broke or bent which also requires the tranny to come back at least 4"-6" to access the fork to replace/repair it
With tranny & clutch out (it chattered so is either worn out or contaminated with oil) you will be staring at the back of the block. More common leak is rear intake but RMS can also be the reason or on rarer occasions the RMS housing gasket (you need to drop rear of pan to replace that one)
if there are signs of oil sling on the engine side of FW...oil is also getting on clutch disc so fix the leak source or you will kill a new clutch quickly
BTW on the new MC/Slave/reservoir kit you bought install the slave with the straps still on the slave. They break 1st time you push in the clutch leaving the plastic rod cup on
it sounds like your tranny needs to come out to fix what sounds like a broken TO bearing which then allowed the slave piston to over extend when you pushed the clutch in again and it puked its hydraulic fluid. Or your clutch fork broke or bent which also requires the tranny to come back at least 4"-6" to access the fork to replace/repair it
With tranny & clutch out (it chattered so is either worn out or contaminated with oil) you will be staring at the back of the block. More common leak is rear intake but RMS can also be the reason or on rarer occasions the RMS housing gasket (you need to drop rear of pan to replace that one)
if there are signs of oil sling on the engine side of FW...oil is also getting on clutch disc so fix the leak source or you will kill a new clutch quickly
BTW on the new MC/Slave/reservoir kit you bought install the slave with the straps still on the slave. They break 1st time you push in the clutch leaving the plastic rod cup on
06-08-2019, 12:44 AM
#9
Thank you for all the input, I really appreciate it. I got a good look at things today, looks like your were spot on! Here's a quick clip of whats going on:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7k2...ature=youtu.be
When I took the video I wasn't laying at the proper angle to see exactly whats going on. I popped the inspection cover and couldn't see anything peeling it back (Didn't remove the starter to get it all the way off), but I came back to the clutch fork because something didn't feel right. Looks like the fork is sitting against the pressure plate now, looks like the TOB failed.
As far as ordering parts I'm thinking:
-MC/ slave kit
-TOB (Still looking into options, apparently the "square" LT4/ Vette one is stronger but I'm trying to confirm fitment and all that jazz: https://www.ebay.com/itm/AT-Clutches...ty!92111!US!-1
-Rear main seal
-Intake mani gasket set
The clutch still has life left in it, I'd assume anywhere from 30-50% so I feel like I should leave it. I've never gone further than pulling/ swapping T56s but I'm going to assume the clutch doesn't need to be pulled to replace the TOB right? Will research this next when I have more time. I'd like to rip the engine out at some point in the next year and swap with a refreshed LT1 so I just want to get it back up and running ASAP at the moment.
Also, my car is a 94. Apparently its very common for the oil pressure sensor to leak but mine should be located by the oil filter if the engine is original (185k miles so who knows). Will confirm this tomorrow, I forgot today.
Let me know of your thoughts, thank you all so much again!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7k2...ature=youtu.be
When I took the video I wasn't laying at the proper angle to see exactly whats going on. I popped the inspection cover and couldn't see anything peeling it back (Didn't remove the starter to get it all the way off), but I came back to the clutch fork because something didn't feel right. Looks like the fork is sitting against the pressure plate now, looks like the TOB failed.
As far as ordering parts I'm thinking:
-MC/ slave kit
-TOB (Still looking into options, apparently the "square" LT4/ Vette one is stronger but I'm trying to confirm fitment and all that jazz: https://www.ebay.com/itm/AT-Clutches...ty!92111!US!-1
-Rear main seal
-Intake mani gasket set
The clutch still has life left in it, I'd assume anywhere from 30-50% so I feel like I should leave it. I've never gone further than pulling/ swapping T56s but I'm going to assume the clutch doesn't need to be pulled to replace the TOB right? Will research this next when I have more time. I'd like to rip the engine out at some point in the next year and swap with a refreshed LT1 so I just want to get it back up and running ASAP at the moment.
Also, my car is a 94. Apparently its very common for the oil pressure sensor to leak but mine should be located by the oil filter if the engine is original (185k miles so who knows). Will confirm this tomorrow, I forgot today.
Let me know of your thoughts, thank you all so much again!
06-08-2019, 10:26 AM
#10
You should not be able to push the fork in that far which points to the T.O. bearing lip being peeled back
You need to remove the PP to install a new T.O. bearing on LT1 pull clutches.....so at that point consider replacing the clutch if it is worn more than 50%.....this is not a small job so consider the clutch condition
Can't see in video where the fluid leak "starts" when coming down the braded line but if you got a new MC/slave just swap it out
The end of the fork should be about flush with the bell housing when installed (pic)
The square top (pic) TO bearing does have more meat on the bones in terms of the top. SPEC was selling them for around $80 IIRC but there may be other sources cheaper.
06-11-2019, 03:06 PM
#13
unless you know someone with a welder...try a muffler shop
With that said I have not had a TO bearing peel back but certainly have seen several posts, like yours, where they have
With that said I have not had a TO bearing peel back but certainly have seen several posts, like yours, where they have
06-17-2019, 11:37 PM
#14
Just an FYI in case I forget. I messaged the seller of the AT Clutches TOB and they offer a 6 month warranty.
I just got all the parts in but probably won't have a chance to do anything until the weekend most likely. Can't wait to pull everything, have the flywheel resurfaced, TOB flange welded, and get it all back together doing it on the street
lol
I just got all the parts in but probably won't have a chance to do anything until the weekend most likely. Can't wait to pull everything, have the flywheel resurfaced, TOB flange welded, and get it all back together doing it on the street
lol