Why do you guys keep holding on to your lt1s?
02-16-2022, 01:48 PM
#201
The ancient Gen1 LT1 is pretty cool so is the old Gen 2 LT1 is also pretty cool for nostalgic reasons too. NA Gen 2 350 LT1 vs Gen 1 350 TPI, TPI car is more fun to drive & more reliable. 😀
Gen 2 LT1
about their performance potential they are like 30+ years ago. Cool if you like them but ancient history and irrelevant now. The LS1 isn't far behind either.
As for performance now with
Gen 2 LT1, good luck, almost no one wants to tune them, many shops refuse to even look at them and quality performance parts are hard to find. Advanced Induction an LT1/LT4 leader will barely fool with porting LT1/LT4 heads anymore - their website indicated they do them once a year. Lloyd Elliot may still do LT1 stuff.
Lot of poorly informed Gen 2 LT1 fanboi's &
think that reverse flow cooling means something. It means the LT1 cylinder heads aren't designed correctly and have hot spots due to the siamesed exhaust ports.
Add an iron block and you have thermal issues and can't disperse the heat quickly enough.
Band aids like reverse flow cooling are required to scrape by.
Check out stock for stock how much larger of a radiator a stock LT1 making 50hp less needs vs an LS1.
You can run 12 to 1 + compression all day in an aluminum block LS with a good tune & pump 93 gas, no need for reverse cooling and all of its issues. Zero advantage to the LT1. However reverse cooling does make the LT1 prone to having issues with trapped air in the cooling system. Real life knew a couple of people that lost LT1's to that issue. Never mind the optispark.
Plus mod for mod back in the day in 1999, the LT1's were typically .3 to .5 seconds slower than an LS1.
Due to the worn out GM tooling used in the mid 1990's about 1 out 5 LT1's seemed spin bearings after getting heads and cam because their build quality was pretty low.
The extra stress & rpm was too much. One of my friends was service manager at a big Chevy dealer, he said new as installed by GM, the LT1 about half needed a full rebuild to actually be in GM spec on bearings and other machining.
Given the dozens and dozens he replaced under GM warranty couldn't argue with him.
Later running his own hot rod shop, he would build some killer LT1/LT4's but only as a full rebuild or stroker due to poor factory machine work.
Saw a lot of disappointing LT1's back in 1999-2003 including several 383/396 LT1's that struggled to make ~360whp due lousy cylinder heads, poor build quality & bad tuning.
With that said, there were several power adder 396 LT4's in my area that kicked *** and would, could & did slap down NA LS1/LS6 H&C cars, supercharged Mustang's left and right.
Those 700+whp FI LT4's schooled a lot of newbies.
I'm sure a lot of folks won't like this post but that's the facts of what I saw & experienced back in the day.
Nothing wrong with hot rodding an old obsolete engine...it's part of the fun.
End of
Gen 2 LT1
about their performance potential they are like 30+ years ago. Cool if you like them but ancient history and irrelevant now. The LS1 isn't far behind either.As for performance now with
Gen 2 LT1, good luck, almost no one wants to tune them, many shops refuse to even look at them and quality performance parts are hard to find. Advanced Induction an LT1/LT4 leader will barely fool with porting LT1/LT4 heads anymore - their website indicated they do them once a year. Lloyd Elliot may still do LT1 stuff.Lot of poorly informed Gen 2 LT1 fanboi's &
think that reverse flow cooling means something. It means the LT1 cylinder heads aren't designed correctly and have hot spots due to the siamesed exhaust ports. Add an iron block and you have thermal issues and can't disperse the heat quickly enough. Band aids like reverse flow cooling are required to scrape by.Check out stock for stock how much larger of a radiator a stock LT1 making 50hp less needs vs an LS1.
You can run 12 to 1 + compression all day in an aluminum block LS with a good tune & pump 93 gas, no need for reverse cooling and all of its issues. Zero advantage to the LT1. However reverse cooling does make the LT1 prone to having issues with trapped air in the cooling system. Real life knew a couple of people that lost LT1's to that issue. Never mind the optispark.
Plus mod for mod back in the day in 1999, the LT1's were typically .3 to .5 seconds slower than an LS1.
Due to the worn out GM tooling used in the mid 1990's about 1 out 5 LT1's seemed spin bearings after getting heads and cam because their build quality was pretty low.
The extra stress & rpm was too much. One of my friends was service manager at a big Chevy dealer, he said new as installed by GM, the LT1 about half needed a full rebuild to actually be in GM spec on bearings and other machining.Given the dozens and dozens he replaced under GM warranty couldn't argue with him.
Later running his own hot rod shop, he would build some killer LT1/LT4's but only as a full rebuild or stroker due to poor factory machine work.Saw a lot of disappointing LT1's back in 1999-2003 including several 383/396 LT1's that struggled to make ~360whp due lousy cylinder heads, poor build quality & bad tuning.
With that said, there were several power adder 396 LT4's in my area that kicked *** and would, could & did slap down NA LS1/LS6 H&C cars, supercharged Mustang's left and right.
Those 700+whp FI LT4's schooled a lot of newbies.
I'm sure a lot of folks won't like this post but that's the facts of what I saw & experienced back in the day.
Nothing wrong with hot rodding an old obsolete engine...it's part of the fun.
End of
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 02-16-2022 at 02:05 PM.
02-16-2022, 09:13 PM
#202
Staging Lane
That's a lot of vitriol for one post. You mad?
Honestly, I was looking for an LS1 car too. But a $3500 LT1 SS with all SLP mods was too good a deal to not take a chance on. You should read up on reverse flow cooling some more. It was originally developed for the LT5, and it was built into the design of the LS1 from the start. The problem with the LT1 is GM did it starting from a Gen1 SBC design from the 50s. The LT5 and LT1 are the reason the LS1 exists.
Enjoy your car, I will enjoy all of mine.
Honestly, I was looking for an LS1 car too. But a $3500 LT1 SS with all SLP mods was too good a deal to not take a chance on. You should read up on reverse flow cooling some more. It was originally developed for the LT5, and it was built into the design of the LS1 from the start. The problem with the LT1 is GM did it starting from a Gen1 SBC design from the 50s. The LT5 and LT1 are the reason the LS1 exists.
Enjoy your car, I will enjoy all of mine.
02-16-2022, 11:58 PM
#203
That's a lot of vitriol for one post. You mad?
Honestly, I was looking for an LS1 car too. But a $3500 LT1 SS with all SLP mods was too good a deal to not take a chance on. You should read up on reverse flow cooling some more. It was originally developed for the LT5, and it was built into the design of the LS1 from the start. The problem with the LT1 is GM did it starting from a Gen1 SBC design from the 50s. The LT5 and LT1 are the reason the LS1 exists.
Enjoy your car, I will enjoy all of mine.
Honestly, I was looking for an LS1 car too. But a $3500 LT1 SS with all SLP mods was too good a deal to not take a chance on. You should read up on reverse flow cooling some more. It was originally developed for the LT5, and it was built into the design of the LS1 from the start. The problem with the LT1 is GM did it starting from a Gen1 SBC design from the 50s. The LT5 and LT1 are the reason the LS1 exists.
Enjoy your car, I will enjoy all of mine.
No anger, just pointing out the many built in faults and frequent poor quality the Gen2 LT1 had coming off of the assembly line. Good news is probably most of the total dog LT1's have spun bearings or overheated from air pockets cracking their heads and died by now. So only fairly decent ones are left running around 25-30 years later.
Have probably racked up ~450,000+ miles driving Gen 1 Small Block Chevy's.
GM literally had worn out tooling and had inexperienced workers slapping LT1 bottom ends together that didn't understand how to correct the machining issue.
The cylinder heads were good at the time for small block chevy arrangement. Pity GM didn't update the LT1 heads to the symmetrical approach evenly spaces the cylinder head exhaust ports, which prevents concentrating heat on the two center exhaust ports, which is a common problem with production valve layout heads on both drag race and endurance engines.
I had plenty of exposure to LT1's back in the day. A close friend had two of LT1's. My dad had one. All had the standard water pump leaks/optispark, broken rockers and cracked exhaust manifolds, failed radiators - with mild use in just a few years. They were nice when sorted out and running but subpar in reliability. They looked cool. 😍
I've read my share on reverse cooling, that why I posted what I did. The reverse flow cooling idea was ripped off by GM from a consultant named Evans who was careless with his intellectual property. There's a long lawsuit that occurred, story is entertaining to say the least. GM wised up and realized reverse flow wasn't needed when the motor was a correctly designed from a clean sheet.
Did-gm-steal-the-innovation-that-made-the-lt1-possible?
Hard for a clean sheet design to owe much to the LT1, as basically nothing was carried over from the LT1. I'll give bore spacing to the original SBC.
The Lotus designed LT5 definitely got GM Powertrain motivated, that for sure.
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 02-17-2022 at 12:24 AM.
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AnthonyS (02-17-2022)
02-17-2022, 10:52 AM
#204
Staging Lane
I agree the LS1 was new. But if GM didn't have the experience of the SBC, LT5 and then LT1, there is no LS1. A lot of the same people were involved in both the LT1 and LS1 development. They learned a lot and made the best pushrod V8 ever.
02-17-2022, 11:59 AM
#205
$3,500 for an LT1 SS seems pretty good.
What's your long term plans for the car?
Auto or stick?
Longtubes & 1.6 roller rockers really seem to help.
One things for sure, its the BETTER LOOKING 4th Gen Camaro. The SS hood rocks. Liked it so much my 3rd Gen RS ended up with the 3rd Gen version of the LT1 4th Gen SS hood. I say that as a $4,500 02 Z28 owner too 😀
What's your long term plans for the car?
Auto or stick?
Longtubes & 1.6 roller rockers really seem to help.
One things for sure, its the BETTER LOOKING 4th Gen Camaro. The SS hood rocks. Liked it so much my 3rd Gen RS ended up with the 3rd Gen version of the LT1 4th Gen SS hood. I say that as a $4,500 02 Z28 owner too 😀
02-17-2022, 01:59 PM
#206
Thanks for the laugh.
The ancient Gen1 LT1 is pretty cool so is the old Gen 2 LT1 is also pretty cool for nostalgic reasons too. NA Gen 2 350 LT1 vs Gen 1 350 TPI, TPI car is more fun to drive & more reliable. 😀
Gen 2 LT1 about their performance potential they are like 30+ years ago. Cool if you like them but ancient history and irrelevant now. The LS1 isn't far behind either.
As for performance now withGen 2 LT1, good luck, almost no one wants to tune them, many shops refuse to even look at them and quality performance parts are hard to find. Advanced Induction an LT1/LT4 leader will barely fool with porting LT1/LT4 heads anymore - their website indicated they do them once a year. Lloyd Elliot may still do LT1 stuff.
Lot of poorly informed Gen 2 LT1 fanboi's &think that reverse flow cooling means something. It means the LT1 cylinder heads aren't designed correctly and have hot spots due to the siamesed exhaust ports. Add an iron block and you have thermal issues and can't disperse the heat quickly enough. Band aids like reverse flow cooling are required to scrape by.
Check out stock for stock how much larger of a radiator a stock LT1 making 50hp less needs vs an LS1.
You can run 12 to 1 + compression all day in an aluminum block LS with a good tune & pump 93 gas, no need for reverse cooling and all of its issues. Zero advantage to the LT1. However reverse cooling does make the LT1 prone to having issues with trapped air in the cooling system. Real life knew a couple of people that lost LT1's to that issue. Never mind the optispark.
Plus mod for mod back in the day in 1999, the LT1's were typically .3 to .5 seconds slower than an LS1.
Due to the worn out GM tooling used in the mid 1990's about 1 out 5 LT1's seemed spin bearings after getting heads and cam because their build quality was pretty low.The extra stress & rpm was too much. One of my friends was service manager at a big Chevy dealer, he said new as installed by GM, the LT1 about half needed a full rebuild to actually be in GM spec on bearings and other machining.
Given the dozens and dozens he replaced under GM warranty couldn't argue with him. Later running his own hot rod shop, he would build some killer LT1/LT4's but only as a full rebuild or stroker due to poor factory machine work.
Saw a lot of disappointing LT1's back in 1999-2003 including several 383/396 LT1's that struggled to make ~360whp due lousy cylinder heads, poor build quality & bad tuning.
With that said, there were several power adder 396 LT4's in my area that kicked *** and would, could & did slap down NA LS1/LS6 H&C cars, supercharged Mustang's left and right.
Those 700+whp FI LT4's schooled a lot of newbies.
I'm sure a lot of folks won't like this post but that's the facts of what I saw & experienced back in the day.
Nothing wrong with hot rodding an old obsolete engine...it's part of the fun.
End of
Gen 2 LT1
about their performance potential they are like 30+ years ago. Cool if you like them but ancient history and irrelevant now. The LS1 isn't far behind either.As for performance now with
Gen 2 LT1, good luck, almost no one wants to tune them, many shops refuse to even look at them and quality performance parts are hard to find. Advanced Induction an LT1/LT4 leader will barely fool with porting LT1/LT4 heads anymore - their website indicated they do them once a year. Lloyd Elliot may still do LT1 stuff.Lot of poorly informed Gen 2 LT1 fanboi's &
think that reverse flow cooling means something. It means the LT1 cylinder heads aren't designed correctly and have hot spots due to the siamesed exhaust ports. Add an iron block and you have thermal issues and can't disperse the heat quickly enough. Band aids like reverse flow cooling are required to scrape by.Check out stock for stock how much larger of a radiator a stock LT1 making 50hp less needs vs an LS1.
You can run 12 to 1 + compression all day in an aluminum block LS with a good tune & pump 93 gas, no need for reverse cooling and all of its issues. Zero advantage to the LT1. However reverse cooling does make the LT1 prone to having issues with trapped air in the cooling system. Real life knew a couple of people that lost LT1's to that issue. Never mind the optispark.
Plus mod for mod back in the day in 1999, the LT1's were typically .3 to .5 seconds slower than an LS1.
Due to the worn out GM tooling used in the mid 1990's about 1 out 5 LT1's seemed spin bearings after getting heads and cam because their build quality was pretty low.
The extra stress & rpm was too much. One of my friends was service manager at a big Chevy dealer, he said new as installed by GM, the LT1 about half needed a full rebuild to actually be in GM spec on bearings and other machining.Given the dozens and dozens he replaced under GM warranty couldn't argue with him.
Later running his own hot rod shop, he would build some killer LT1/LT4's but only as a full rebuild or stroker due to poor factory machine work.Saw a lot of disappointing LT1's back in 1999-2003 including several 383/396 LT1's that struggled to make ~360whp due lousy cylinder heads, poor build quality & bad tuning.
With that said, there were several power adder 396 LT4's in my area that kicked *** and would, could & did slap down NA LS1/LS6 H&C cars, supercharged Mustang's left and right.
Those 700+whp FI LT4's schooled a lot of newbies.
I'm sure a lot of folks won't like this post but that's the facts of what I saw & experienced back in the day.
Nothing wrong with hot rodding an old obsolete engine...it's part of the fun.
End of
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99 Black Bird T/A (02-17-2022)
02-20-2022, 07:34 PM
#211
02-20-2022, 08:38 PM
#212
Staging Lane
$3,500 for an LT1 SS seems pretty good.
What's your long term plans for the car?
Auto or stick?
Longtubes & 1.6 roller rockers really seem to help.
One things for sure, its the BETTER LOOKING 4th Gen Camaro. The SS hood rocks. Liked it so much my 3rd Gen RS ended up with the 3rd Gen version of the LT1 4th Gen SS hood. I say that as a $4,500 02 Z28 owner too 😀
What's your long term plans for the car?
Auto or stick?
Longtubes & 1.6 roller rockers really seem to help.
One things for sure, its the BETTER LOOKING 4th Gen Camaro. The SS hood rocks. Liked it so much my 3rd Gen RS ended up with the 3rd Gen version of the LT1 4th Gen SS hood. I say that as a $4,500 02 Z28 owner too 😀
I really just enjoy driving the SS. I need to get the stereo repaired, fix the headliner, and finish my suspension install and brake upgrade. I have a separate thread on it a few posts down. I was looking for an LS1 car but this one popped up so close to me I had to look. Honestly, this car needs me so that makes it worthwhile too.
02-21-2022, 08:13 PM
#215
Teching In
Sentimental value It's the Sentimental value for me. I bought my 2001 Pontiac Firebird convertible 6 cylinder, 3.8L, beige leather interior, metallic midnight blue in 2004. To celebrate finally graduating from college and with my first out of college. All my own money. It was my dream car. I drove 4 hours just to get. The A-hole dealer didn't even give me a brake on the price. I didn't care much. I bought it at about 22,000 miles, and now have over 264,000 miles. I'm working to restore it back to show room quality. I almost paid for the car all over again . . . . and I don't mind!
02-22-2022, 11:30 AM
#217
Sort like this...
TBI < TPI < Gen 1 SBC < Gen 2 SBC LT1 <Gen 2 SBC LT4 < Lotus LT5, Gen 3 LS1< LS2 < LS3 < LS7 < LSA < LS9 < Gen V LT1 < Gen V LT4 etc.. LT6
One can enjoy the nostalgic engines while having an objective informed opinion of their various short comings. Zero delusions about my 257,000 mile LS1 with annoying piston rock on cold starts. It's day in the sun was nearly 20 years ago.
08-20-2022, 07:08 PM
#218
The ancient Gen1 LT1 is pretty cool so is the old Gen 2 LT1 is also pretty cool for nostalgic reasons too. NA Gen 2 350 LT1 vs Gen 1 350 TPI, TPI car is more fun to drive & more reliable. 😀
Gen 2 LT1 about their performance potential they are like 30+ years ago. Cool if you like them but ancient history and irrelevant now. The LS1 isn't far behind either.
As for performance now withGen 2 LT1, good luck, almost no one wants to tune them, many shops refuse to even look at them and quality performance parts are hard to find. Advanced Induction an LT1/LT4 leader will barely fool with porting LT1/LT4 heads anymore - their website indicated they do them once a year. Lloyd Elliot may still do LT1 stuff.
Lot of poorly informed Gen 2 LT1 fanboi's &think that reverse flow cooling means something. It means the LT1 cylinder heads aren't designed correctly and have hot spots due to the siamesed exhaust ports. Add an iron block and you have thermal issues and can't disperse the heat quickly enough. Band aids like reverse flow cooling are required to scrape by.
Check out stock for stock how much larger of a radiator a stock LT1 making 50hp less needs vs an LS1.
You can run 12 to 1 + compression all day in an aluminum block LS with a good tune & pump 93 gas, no need for reverse cooling and all of its issues. Zero advantage to the LT1. However reverse cooling does make the LT1 prone to having issues with trapped air in the cooling system. Real life knew a couple of people that lost LT1's to that issue. Never mind the optispark.
Plus mod for mod back in the day in 1999, the LT1's were typically .3 to .5 seconds slower than an LS1.
Due to the worn out GM tooling used in the mid 1990's about 1 out 5 LT1's seemed spin bearings after getting heads and cam because their build quality was pretty low.The extra stress & rpm was too much. One of my friends was service manager at a big Chevy dealer, he said new as installed by GM, the LT1 about half needed a full rebuild to actually be in GM spec on bearings and other machining.
Given the dozens and dozens he replaced under GM warranty couldn't argue with him. Later running his own hot rod shop, he would build some killer LT1/LT4's but only as a full rebuild or stroker due to poor factory machine work.
Saw a lot of disappointing LT1's back in 1999-2003 including several 383/396 LT1's that struggled to make ~360whp due lousy cylinder heads, poor build quality & bad tuning.
With that said, there were several power adder 396 LT4's in my area that kicked *** and would, could & did slap down NA LS1/LS6 H&C cars, supercharged Mustang's left and right.
Those 700+whp FI LT4's schooled a lot of newbies.
I'm sure a lot of folks won't like this post but that's the facts of what I saw & experienced back in the day.
Nothing wrong with hot rodding an old obsolete engine...it's part of the fun.
End of
Gen 2 LT1
about their performance potential they are like 30+ years ago. Cool if you like them but ancient history and irrelevant now. The LS1 isn't far behind either.As for performance now with
Gen 2 LT1, good luck, almost no one wants to tune them, many shops refuse to even look at them and quality performance parts are hard to find. Advanced Induction an LT1/LT4 leader will barely fool with porting LT1/LT4 heads anymore - their website indicated they do them once a year. Lloyd Elliot may still do LT1 stuff.Lot of poorly informed Gen 2 LT1 fanboi's &
think that reverse flow cooling means something. It means the LT1 cylinder heads aren't designed correctly and have hot spots due to the siamesed exhaust ports. Add an iron block and you have thermal issues and can't disperse the heat quickly enough. Band aids like reverse flow cooling are required to scrape by.Check out stock for stock how much larger of a radiator a stock LT1 making 50hp less needs vs an LS1.
You can run 12 to 1 + compression all day in an aluminum block LS with a good tune & pump 93 gas, no need for reverse cooling and all of its issues. Zero advantage to the LT1. However reverse cooling does make the LT1 prone to having issues with trapped air in the cooling system. Real life knew a couple of people that lost LT1's to that issue. Never mind the optispark.
Plus mod for mod back in the day in 1999, the LT1's were typically .3 to .5 seconds slower than an LS1.
Due to the worn out GM tooling used in the mid 1990's about 1 out 5 LT1's seemed spin bearings after getting heads and cam because their build quality was pretty low.
The extra stress & rpm was too much. One of my friends was service manager at a big Chevy dealer, he said new as installed by GM, the LT1 about half needed a full rebuild to actually be in GM spec on bearings and other machining.Given the dozens and dozens he replaced under GM warranty couldn't argue with him.
Later running his own hot rod shop, he would build some killer LT1/LT4's but only as a full rebuild or stroker due to poor factory machine work.Saw a lot of disappointing LT1's back in 1999-2003 including several 383/396 LT1's that struggled to make ~360whp due lousy cylinder heads, poor build quality & bad tuning.
With that said, there were several power adder 396 LT4's in my area that kicked *** and would, could & did slap down NA LS1/LS6 H&C cars, supercharged Mustang's left and right.
Those 700+whp FI LT4's schooled a lot of newbies.
I'm sure a lot of folks won't like this post but that's the facts of what I saw & experienced back in the day.
Nothing wrong with hot rodding an old obsolete engine...it's part of the fun.
End of
Just let me know when you are ready for some Poor Gen II action
08-21-2022, 12:33 AM
#219
Owned mine for 15 years. I know the car very well. A lot of the car I’ve taken apart or I know who has serviced it.
Not worth much but still get a thrill driving it.
Hear too many old guys at car shows say, “Man, I wish I still had my _____” that I know I will be saying “97 SS” if I sell it. Bought it the Summer after I graduated high school.
Not worth much but still get a thrill driving it.
Hear too many old guys at car shows say, “Man, I wish I still had my _____” that I know I will be saying “97 SS” if I sell it. Bought it the Summer after I graduated high school.
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383z (08-22-2022)
