Taking some weight out of EPPs LT1 project car
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 664
Likes: 3
From: Under my Formula
New total savings- added aluminum spool Went to aluminum spool and lost another 18.5 lbs. That is a lot of rotating mass!!
Replaced BMR K-member with one for manual rack= +1.72 lbs.
ATI Balancer vs stock= +1.8 lbs.
Power steering system w/fluid= 32.3 lbs.
New flaming river manual rack set up= 15.73 lbs.
total savings in manual= -16.57
A/C compressor= -15.37 lbs.
A/C bracket and idler pulley= -8.00
Accumulator and lines= -4.3 lbs.
Condensor= -8.21 lbs.
Washer bottle= -1.69 lbs. -8.23 lbs. when full (It was full when in car)
Crash bar= -16.53 lbs.
Front foam support w/clips= -3.28 lbs.
ABS unit= -12.44 lbs.
Cruise control= -3.01 lbs.
Brake booster= -9.73 lbs.
Replaced single adjustable QA1 struts with double adjustable QA1= +.29 lbs.
Replaced 315 lb. QA1 springs with 300 lb. QA1 springs= +3.76 lbs.
Strange front brakes= -40.9 lbs.
Cut LH spindle= -3.83 lbs.
Cut RH spindle= -3.69 lbs.
Strange master cylinder vs stock= +1.97 lbs.
Old rear brakes= 23.10 lbs. each
Wilwood race brakes= 11.37 lbs. each
Total savings in rear brakes= -23.46 lbs.
Old intercooler tubing from 2nd intercooler up= 16.02 lbs.
New style procharger tubing in aluminum= 8.31 lbs.
Total savings in intercooler set up= -7.71 lbs.
Eaton posi and carrier bearings= 24.995 lbs.
Moser aluminum spool and carrier bearings= 6.56 lbs.
Total savings going to spool= -18.44 lbs.
Total reduction so far= -194.16 lbs.
Replaced BMR K-member with one for manual rack= +1.72 lbs.
ATI Balancer vs stock= +1.8 lbs.
Power steering system w/fluid= 32.3 lbs.
New flaming river manual rack set up= 15.73 lbs.
total savings in manual= -16.57
A/C compressor= -15.37 lbs.
A/C bracket and idler pulley= -8.00
Accumulator and lines= -4.3 lbs.
Condensor= -8.21 lbs.
Washer bottle= -1.69 lbs. -8.23 lbs. when full (It was full when in car)
Crash bar= -16.53 lbs.
Front foam support w/clips= -3.28 lbs.
ABS unit= -12.44 lbs.
Cruise control= -3.01 lbs.
Brake booster= -9.73 lbs.
Replaced single adjustable QA1 struts with double adjustable QA1= +.29 lbs.
Replaced 315 lb. QA1 springs with 300 lb. QA1 springs= +3.76 lbs.
Strange front brakes= -40.9 lbs.
Cut LH spindle= -3.83 lbs.
Cut RH spindle= -3.69 lbs.
Strange master cylinder vs stock= +1.97 lbs.
Old rear brakes= 23.10 lbs. each
Wilwood race brakes= 11.37 lbs. each
Total savings in rear brakes= -23.46 lbs.
Old intercooler tubing from 2nd intercooler up= 16.02 lbs.
New style procharger tubing in aluminum= 8.31 lbs.
Total savings in intercooler set up= -7.71 lbs.
Eaton posi and carrier bearings= 24.995 lbs.
Moser aluminum spool and carrier bearings= 6.56 lbs.
Total savings going to spool= -18.44 lbs.
Total reduction so far= -194.16 lbs.
__________________
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 664
Likes: 3
From: Under my Formula
Up to 197 out of the car Emergency brake cables another -2.98 lbs. Getting closer to my 200 lb. reduction goal.
Replaced BMR K-member with one for manual rack= +1.72
ATI Balancer vs stock= +1.8
Power steering system w/fluid= 32.3
New flaming river manual rack set up= 15.73
total savings in manual= -16.57
A/C compressor= -15.37
A/C bracket and idler pulley= -8.00
Accumulator and lines= -4.3
Condensor= -8.21
Washer bottle= -1.69 lbs. -8.23 when full (It was full when in car)
Crash bar= -16.53
Front foam support w/clips= -3.28
ABS unit= -12.44
Cruise control= -3.01
Brake booster= -9.73
Replaced single adjustable QA1 struts with double adjustable QA1= +.29
Replaced 315 lb. QA1 springs with 300 lb. QA1 springs= +3.76
Strange front brakes= -40.9
Cut LH spindle= -3.83
Cut RH spindle= -3.69
Strange master cylinder vs stock= +1.97
Old rear brakes= 23.10 each
Wilwood race brakes= 11.37 each
Total savings in rear brakes= -23.46
Old intercooler tubing from 2nd intercooler up= 16.02
New style procharger tubing in aluminum= 8.31
Total savings in intercooler set up= -7.71
Eaton posi and carrier bearings= 24.995
Moser aluminum spool and carrier bearings= 6.56
Total savings going to spool= -18.44
Emergency brake cables= -2.98
Total reduction so far= -197.14 lbs.
Replaced BMR K-member with one for manual rack= +1.72
ATI Balancer vs stock= +1.8
Power steering system w/fluid= 32.3
New flaming river manual rack set up= 15.73
total savings in manual= -16.57
A/C compressor= -15.37
A/C bracket and idler pulley= -8.00
Accumulator and lines= -4.3
Condensor= -8.21
Washer bottle= -1.69 lbs. -8.23 when full (It was full when in car)
Crash bar= -16.53
Front foam support w/clips= -3.28
ABS unit= -12.44
Cruise control= -3.01
Brake booster= -9.73
Replaced single adjustable QA1 struts with double adjustable QA1= +.29
Replaced 315 lb. QA1 springs with 300 lb. QA1 springs= +3.76
Strange front brakes= -40.9
Cut LH spindle= -3.83
Cut RH spindle= -3.69
Strange master cylinder vs stock= +1.97
Old rear brakes= 23.10 each
Wilwood race brakes= 11.37 each
Total savings in rear brakes= -23.46
Old intercooler tubing from 2nd intercooler up= 16.02
New style procharger tubing in aluminum= 8.31
Total savings in intercooler set up= -7.71
Eaton posi and carrier bearings= 24.995
Moser aluminum spool and carrier bearings= 6.56
Total savings going to spool= -18.44
Emergency brake cables= -2.98
Total reduction so far= -197.14 lbs.
__________________
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 664
Likes: 3
From: Under my Formula
Why the hell do we do put ourselves through this?? If you guys think you are the only ones that have problems with aftermarket items not being quite right, you are not alone!!
I went ahead and got a set of Weld Prostar 3.5" for the front with MT sportsman tires so I could run in True Street classes. I thought I would see how the rims fit and noticed that the studs are about 1/2" too short. Strange sells the brakes with 2 1/2 studs instead of 3". Now why would they do that?? So the longer studs are on order. And I actually have to pull the hubs back apart to get them in!
So on to something else. I thought I would finish the rear end today and got the spool installed. Went to put the axles in and they don't go all the way in! Moser didn't cut the splines far enough down the tube and the spool bottoms out on the spline with about 3/16" of the bearing still hanging out.
Now I know why man created Jim Beam.
These are only two of many problems I have run across these last couple of months. Frustrating..frustrating...frustrating....
I went ahead and got a set of Weld Prostar 3.5" for the front with MT sportsman tires so I could run in True Street classes. I thought I would see how the rims fit and noticed that the studs are about 1/2" too short. Strange sells the brakes with 2 1/2 studs instead of 3". Now why would they do that?? So the longer studs are on order. And I actually have to pull the hubs back apart to get them in!
So on to something else. I thought I would finish the rear end today and got the spool installed. Went to put the axles in and they don't go all the way in! Moser didn't cut the splines far enough down the tube and the spool bottoms out on the spline with about 3/16" of the bearing still hanging out.
Now I know why man created Jim Beam.These are only two of many problems I have run across these last couple of months. Frustrating..frustrating...frustrating....
__________________
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 664
Likes: 3
From: Under my Formula
Getting closer! After a summer away from her I feel motivated again. Front studs are replaced and axles are cut. I would like to thank Moser for doing that while I waited!! The new front rims are on and that took another 10.9 lbs. out of her. We are up to a total of 208.04 lbs of reduction this year and haven't touched the interior. Currently working on the brakes and off to the alignment shop. I will dyno it once more before going to the track.
Replaced BMR K-member with one for manual rack= +1.72
ATI Balancer vs stock= +1.8
Power steering system w/fluid= 32.3
New flaming river manual rack set up= 15.73
total savings in manual= -16.57
A/C compressor= -15.37
A/C bracket and idler pulley= -8.00
Accumulator and lines= -4.3
Condensor= -8.21
Washer bottle= -1.69 lbs. -8.23 when full (It was full when in car)
Crash bar= -16.53
Front foam support w/clips= -3.28
ABS unit= -12.44
Cruise control= -3.01
Brake booster= -9.73
Replaced single adjustable QA1 struts with double adjustable QA1= +.29
Replaced 315 lb. QA1 springs with 300 lb. QA1 springs= +3.76
Strange front brakes= -40.9
Cut LH spindle= -3.83
Cut RH spindle= -3.69
Strange master cylinder vs stock= +1.97
Old rear brakes= 23.10 each
Wilwood race brakes= 11.37 each
Total savings in rear brakes= -23.46
Old intercooler tubing from 2nd intercooler up= 16.02
New style procharger tubing in aluminum= 8.31
Total savings in intercooler set up= -7.71
Eaton posi and carrier bearings= 24.995
Moser aluminum spool and carrier bearings= 6.56
Total savings going to spool= -18.44
Emergency brake cables= -2.98
Weld 5.5" rim and tire combo= 32.6
Weld 3.5" rim and tire combo= 27.15
Total savings with narrow rims= -10.9
Total reduction so far= -208.04 lbs.
Here is a look of the new master cylinder and line lock. Bracket is made from a piece of scrap aluminum.
Replaced BMR K-member with one for manual rack= +1.72
ATI Balancer vs stock= +1.8
Power steering system w/fluid= 32.3
New flaming river manual rack set up= 15.73
total savings in manual= -16.57
A/C compressor= -15.37
A/C bracket and idler pulley= -8.00
Accumulator and lines= -4.3
Condensor= -8.21
Washer bottle= -1.69 lbs. -8.23 when full (It was full when in car)
Crash bar= -16.53
Front foam support w/clips= -3.28
ABS unit= -12.44
Cruise control= -3.01
Brake booster= -9.73
Replaced single adjustable QA1 struts with double adjustable QA1= +.29
Replaced 315 lb. QA1 springs with 300 lb. QA1 springs= +3.76
Strange front brakes= -40.9
Cut LH spindle= -3.83
Cut RH spindle= -3.69
Strange master cylinder vs stock= +1.97
Old rear brakes= 23.10 each
Wilwood race brakes= 11.37 each
Total savings in rear brakes= -23.46
Old intercooler tubing from 2nd intercooler up= 16.02
New style procharger tubing in aluminum= 8.31
Total savings in intercooler set up= -7.71
Eaton posi and carrier bearings= 24.995
Moser aluminum spool and carrier bearings= 6.56
Total savings going to spool= -18.44
Emergency brake cables= -2.98
Weld 5.5" rim and tire combo= 32.6
Weld 3.5" rim and tire combo= 27.15
Total savings with narrow rims= -10.9
Total reduction so far= -208.04 lbs.
Here is a look of the new master cylinder and line lock. Bracket is made from a piece of scrap aluminum.
__________________
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,023
Likes: 6
From: LT1 land...the "409" of the 90s!
If I thought putting the bar in was hard the cage took alot out of me. I was very picky about it and I have got to say it was maybe the final straw for the street car side. The car is still street legal but the cage had a huge impact on the rest of it. Even though I kept my heater(no A/C) and all the creature features it is not the same.
The parts dign and problems like you have ran into over the years is incredible. We had to design and build most of our own stuff.
Your car is looking good man. Nice job!
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 664
Likes: 3
From: Under my Formula
Thanks, appreciate it. I hear you on the cage, getting one I like will be hard to find.
Should be down to bleeding brakes after tomorrow if I can keep the family at the lake.
__________________
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
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Verdad Gallardo Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,023
Likes: 6
From: LT1 land...the "409" of the 90s!
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 664
Likes: 3
From: Under my Formula
Josh...will do. Once I get this down the track again I'll get a hold of you.
__________________
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
Your car is going to be super light. I've taken 302.25 lbs out of mine and most of that is from the interior. You should be able to hit a 3000 lb raceweight assuming you aren't in the 250-300 lb range.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 664
Likes: 3
From: Under my Formula
I fabbed/installed all the front lines and the long one going to the rear. All that is left is plumbing the lines across the rear axle.....ran out of brake line or that would be done too. I did the whole car in stainless but probably won't be able to find stainless brake line around this town!
Got all the stuff installed under the car that was removed to run new brakelines and started her back up. Finally it runs again!!
Ran it for about 35-40 minutes with zero issues. Tops out at around 175 degrees. The electric water pump seems to be doing a decent job.
__________________
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 664
Likes: 3
From: Under my Formula
Indy is a good option....coming out to you could get costly in fuel.
__________________
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 664
Likes: 3
From: Under my Formula
Back On The Dyno Put the car on the scale again, down to 3241. That's a 215 lb drop! Made quite a bit more horsepower.....up to 432 RWHP@5500 and 436 tq at 5000. That's an increase in 63 hp and the engine is still stock....well except for valve springs and rocker arms. Getting the accessories off the engine, aluminum spool, wilwood rear race brakes, ATI super damper, updated blower inlet tubing, and new intercooler tubing made a hell of a difference!
Need to get the front end aligned and back to the track. With those numbers should be in the tens pretty easy.
Need to get the front end aligned and back to the track. With those numbers should be in the tens pretty easy.
__________________
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 664
Likes: 3
From: Under my Formula
I will have one of the dyno runs up tomorrow. Made around six pulls and they all were between 420 and 430hp. You can check out the links in my sig for a couple of pics and old video.
__________________
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be
95 Pontiac Formula- Stock engine with ATI Procharger, Moser 12 bolt w/4:30 gears, Rossler trans, Neil Chance 4000 stall, M/T ET streets, 10.914@ 121.90mph, 1.452 60ft. GMHTP November 2010 Feature Car. Check it out at:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...ebird-formula/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZ1z...ature=youtu.be