Lmao wtf kind of H/C Lt1 lets bolt on LS1s beat him??? Was the cam some oversized POS spec'd for a 396 and he was still stock cubes? In all honesty it probably had to do with those out-of the box AFRs . Ported stock castings are far superior to most out of the box aftermarket.

Thats rediculous, I'll be damned if a bolt-on LS1 comes within CAR LENGTHS of my daily driven LT1.

Horrible choices and lack of information is what keeps so much of the LT1 crowd slow. LS1s are just more tolerant to ignorance

BTW since when did it turn into a dyno e-tourny. (Oh and check 97blkz's user title rofl)

 

For your sake please do.

 

Stop crying.
There are countless members on here and people you will never see pushing 400-500rwhp with stroked H/C LT1's.


A 380rwhp LT1 is looking at low 12's with proper hook, maybe high 11's with weight reduction.
Many LS1's can't get out of 13's with bolt on's.



Stop crying you sound like a little bitch.

 

I use the sig to reel suckers in, it worked on this one.

 

I noticed Would have been real simple to just look at the MPH and seen that it doesnt add up . I keep mine simple for the same reasons...but I'm still stuck in 11's N/A so what do I know? I'm just another slow LT1

Your sig time was 10.3 IIRC? I remember it was low 10s but the number currently is escaping me.

 

Best to date on a 100 shot is 10.42@128. Good memory.

 

Thanks PlatinumWS6 i will enjoy my LS1 and thanks for all the comments bro. and i see that you did make a good discussion 97blkz lol

 

I do quite a bit more reading then posting

 

Thats pathetic for a H/C LT1. Tell you what. www.musclecarevolution.com is having a Track Day at SDR in March. Why don't you come down then and run my H/C LT1. I don't think you are going to be too happy with the results. Let me know. We both live in Georgia so no excuses.

 

if you want to go turbo/heads/cam then you will get simillar power with either LT1 or LS1 but if you go heads/cam only or stroker then the LS1 will be more powerful.

if you want to get LT1 f-body ( camaro or TA) than you can get more power by getting the GM performance parts 215cc 18* degree heads p# 24502580 and convert them to LT1 style that way i guess you will make power as much or close to LS1 if not even more.

actauly for car look or sound specially with Hooker Long Tube headers i certainly like the LT1 more and i prefer the LT1 camaro look over a LS1 camaro. i owned before a 94 LT1 A4 camaro with heads/cam mods and Hooker long tubes and i own now my 2000 LS1 M6 camaro mods in the signature and difintly the look and sound of the LT1 camaro is better than the LS1 specailly the sound but in terms of power difinitly the LS1 camaro is more powerful.

 

Now when you say stage 3 does that mean it's still the stock displacement? I'm seriously asking because I don't know what the stages mean on LT1's.

If it is then please link me anything that shows a dyno chart of someone making 480 rwhp on a stock cubed LT1 with just heads/cam and bolt ons.

The LSX blocks are now being taken to 454's and that to me is a tad more impressive then 383/396. Top off a 454 with LS7 heads and a sheet metal intake and you could have one hell of a monster on your hands.

It's more the firing order then iron block that makes the LT1 sound better. But popcorn machine is a bit of a stretch. Take a LS1 with a decent cam, LT headers, ORY & dumped true duals and you got one sweet sounding ride.

Give us a few examples. Surely people with LT1's have posted dyno charts before. I'm curious what head/cam combo gets 500 rwhp. No sarcasm at all as I am truly curious.

Really? So my multiple 12.3 timeslips must be a mind boggle to you. Now picture if I had a ls6 intake, underdrive pulley and 3.73 gears. Can you say full weight bolt on ls1 in the 11's?

Some M6's stock have hit 12.9 and you know it. The LS1 bolt on record is in the 10's and you know it. And getting high 11's or low 12's with bolt ons alone has been done many, many times. All it takes is the right bolt ons (no tornados or performance chips), the right tires (no street tires) and some decent racing conditions (no Denver type elevations).

Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

 

There are bolt on LS1's faster then you. Granted you'll likely never see one lined up next to you since they are rare (most people that mod that much get a cam). But it's well documented that they exist none the less. It took you ported heads, cam and boltons to get mid to high 11's. There are bolt on LS1's running low 11's. There are cam only ls1's in the 10's. Hell there is a bolt on LS1 in the 10's!!!

But I seriously doubt that you're damned because a few bolt on LS1s could not only run within a few cars of you but actually be the one in the lead

 

You seem to be comparing track cars to street cars. There are bolt on LT1s in the 11's too FYI...and there are also cam only LT1s in the 10s. Yes, stock cubes too. I fail to see your point

Mid 11's may not be any record setting run - fairly average times for a thought out build if you ask me - but that is N/A on DR's in my full weight daily driver. I can positively be low low 11's or high 10s on motor if I did not have to worry at all about drivability. 4.10s instead of 3.23s, full slicks, much more aggressive cam, larger stall, etc would get it done. You make it seem as if the heads/cam was needed for me to run 11s. The fact of the matter is, it was needed to run streetable, reliable times in the car I choose drive at least 4 days a week.
No - your car is a stalled auto. He was referring to a 380rwhp manual being low 12's/high 11s. A 380rwhp stalled auto would be bottom 11's with the right suspension.

There is no argument that the LS1 is a newer, more powerful superior engine...but it is not nearly the thrasing that you guys make it out to be.

If it was so easy, why are you still running 12.3? I only ran a couple tenths slower then that in my bolt on LT1

 

1). The LT1 bolt on record is 11.8 @ 113. So I would venture to guess that there are not too many bolt on LT1s running around in the 11.8-11.9 range. LS1's in the 11's with just bolt ons would be far more common.

2). Send me a link to cam only LT1's running 10's. If the worlds quickest bolt on LT1 is 11.8 then I would love to see what cam drops .8 or more from that.

3). The quickest bolt on LT1 is 11.8 and the quickest bolt on LS1 is 10.8. The point you failed to see is that with less mods (stock heads or bolt ons) LS1s can run a full second faster then the car you claimed:

My point was to prove this statement false. Which I did. I just took it one step further by adding the fact that LS1's have gone well into the 10's cam only.

I was never insulting your times. In fact, I think mid 11's are excellent for your setup. I know mild head/cam LS1's running high 11's so clearly you're doing something right.

I'm with you on low 11's. But I think it would take some weight reduction for high 10's. But that's neither here nor there since you want a streetable car and not an all out drag car.

I can respect that. I'm sporting a 3500 stall and stock 3.23's because I want to have a streetable car also. Nothing wrong with that.

I think you got your quotes mixed up. When I made the comment about my 12.3 being a mind boggle it had nothing to do with the 380 rwhp lt1 comment. It was in direct response to this comment:

He said nothing about transmissions or power. Just that many can't get out of the 13's. So I sarcastically showed that my car with less then full bolt ons shattered into the lower 12's.

It is what it is. The numbers don't lie even though some people lie about the numbers. On average the LS1 is .5-.7 quicker then a similair LT1 counterpart. Whether that's stock for stock, bolt on for bolt, ect.

Well give me some details. What specific mods did you have and what specific times did you run?

Like I said in a previous post, I don't have all the bolt ons. If I was so inclined I could get a LS6 intake, 3.73 gears, underdrive pulley, upgrade my stall to a Yank PT4400, EWP and get another dyno tune. That has 11's written all over it. But that's not going to happen because I'm going a different route.

I have a set of ETP LS7 heads, LS7 intake, custom cam, underdrive pulley and a lot of other stuff that's going on a 408 shortblock. I was going to go 416 but I like the idea of the iron block for spray since I want to run an occasional 200 shot.

But like you, I want a hint of streetable. So the cam and stall won't be ***** to the wall. I just want a reliable mid to low 10 second car that can see 9's on spray.

 

That is exactly my point. There is always plenty to do, and the cash usually runs out well before the possible ideas do. Many Lt1s are very mild builds, on 15 year old engines with hundreds of thousands of miles, often driven by younger drivers without the cash to go very fast.

As to the times, there are way more 11 second bolt on LT1s then shon - the world is a bigger place then LS1tech.com. Even 10 second cam only cars are possible, and often done in racing classes that limit the field to factory heads. Not saying they are as streetable - but in a track only car, who cares? I'm sure GIZMO can tell you a lot more then about that then I can though.

It was already stated that the LS1s have the edge(as they should have) but that gap is not as large as some make it out to be - it depends on the build. True, my "bolt-on" time had quite a few more mods then you, but was only 4 tenths slower. Most definetly within "driver error" range if the cars were manuals.

If I was so inclined to convert some other heads to LTX(SB2.2?) the biggest benefit of the LS1 would be out the window. It all depends on the build and choice of parts

 

I honestly doubt there is. A few maybe. But for what it takes to run 11's with bolt ons in a LT1 most people would just go heads/cam or spray. I think the only ones in the 11's are Shon and those trying to break his record.

I would need to see proof. I'm the kind of person that won't just assume that there must be some cars out there that run X times with Y mods. If there are cam only, no power adder and stock displacement LT1 in the 10's then surely someone has a link to some site. Usually guys that pull off spectacular times are members of some enthusiast site. Or had the run witnessed by someone who is and posts about what he saw.

Ok so you had more mods and were still .4 slower. That right there goes to the credibility of my statement that .5-.7 is an average advantage when everything else is equal. And since our cars are not manuals it's a moot point. Besides, this debate isn't about human error. It's about what the cars are capable of when human error is not present. Anyone can blow a launch or shift and make a stock LS1 run a 15 second quarter mile. But that doesn't make it a 15 second car.

But what happens when a ls1 counterpart chooses to run ETP 215 heads with a fast 90/90 setup? The biggest benifit just jumped right back in that same window you had it jumping out of.

You can make an argument that someone who picks the best parts for a LT1 heads/cam setup can run right with someone who picks shall we say bang for the buck parts for a LS1 heads/cam setup.

But when all things are equal, including the quality of parts used, the LS1 still maintains its advantage.

 

Darrenls1 and platinumws6 turned this into a pissing match just as vendetta said. Good job

Bottom line,the the LS1 is a better motor, what the **** are we arguing about.

 

Yeah, Burnzilla and Puck had absolutlely nothing to do with it.

We're not arguing, we're debating. There is a difference you know. For one we're not using a lot of profanity and two we're not slinging around personal insults.

 

There is no real nasty arguments going on We all agree the LS1 is superior, and that mod for mod they are quicker. It is just in the "details" where our opinions differ.

Seems tame to me compared to most LT1 vs LS1 threads!

For the "proof" you ask for, just search for stock eliminator LT1s. Don't expect them to tell their "secrets", but many are 10s with untouched heads cam only. With the right setup, 11's cam only is not as hard as you would think. Some may call it easy Throwing an off the shelf cam and some pacesetter longtubes and expecting miracles is what usually happens, which leaves people with a sour taste in their mouth for LT1s.

Cam only Lt1s do not usually run as quick as cam only LS1s for the obvious reason - the head flow.

 

wow this is way more comments than i ever thought i would cause by just wanting some information so i could make a decision on which one to buy lol but i like it, keeps me entertained and im learning as well. thanks guys.