You really need to check yourself! If I were a mod I would ban your *** for utter and total ignorance and blatant disrespect. Aw boohoo you have to read a few wiring diagrams. Cry me a ******* river you jackass.

 

Hi 95 TA-
This post will attempt to shed some light on the issue from my perspective. Up front, I'll state I don't have a problem with you speaking your mind, as I'm outspoken myself.

I believe EFIC (Mike & wife) will be the first to admit it is not rocket science as you note. That as I see it, is not the main issue, however. Why wouldn't EFIC care to modify an existing OEM harness? As Mike noted, it is a lot of work. IOW labor, and that translates into cost. I believe you, having done swaps and conversions, realize the hours that can be racked up in a project. It is not such a big deal when the effort is done for oneself, but when it is done for someone else in exchange for $$$, it is necessary to be conscious of the time invested. For EFIC it would be a no-win situation. I'll try to explain.

Those that have purchased or seen his harnesses are aware of the professionalism and quality of the finished product. That leads me to believe Mike (actually I thought his wife plays a major role in harness construction) wouldn't care to modify an existing bundle of wiring realizing the finished product wouldn't look professional unless extra man hours were invested. That means the harness would either look like patchwork, or the bill would be prohibitive to the degree few would be willing to pay for the labor bill. He's damned if he does, or damned if he don't. It just makes for headaches, poor customer relations, and a poor satisfaction rating. It is much more cost effective to start from scratch and build an all new custom harness. I state custom as EFIC is willing to work with customer requests, as many have their own requirements or vehicle options that warrant specialized harnesses. The finished product appears professional and can be sold for a fair (considering the labor invested) price and hopefully for a profit.

As for a 'helpful attitude', in other forums, Mike has shown a willingness to help others that choose to tackle the harness mod themselves, and not just with the necessary parts purchase. Not being rocket science, I'm the kind of guy that is capable and chooses to do it himself. However, I'm too much of a perfectionist to attempt such activity for a living. The price tag would be so unrealistic, that I'd go broke and die of hunger in a hurry. Maybe my post has 'softened' your viewpoint a bit.

A

 

I was going to do this, but then I bought an LS1.. Oh well.

 

Ok, back on topic ...

Let's go with "Why would you want to do this?"
Seriously, there are advantages to being distributorless and running an LS1 PCM vs the LT1 ... right?
I'd like to see em listed, weigh the benefits VS the cost and figure out if this is worth doing.
(No, I'm not qualified to answer the question... but I am sure I'm not the only one wondering)

 

x2 aren't Opti's good for 9's?

 

Good and optimal are two very different things.

 

Arnie, I really do apprecite your effort here, and I really wanted to clarify that it is not a matter of sending ANYTHING to them to have them modify, it is a matter of them giving the specifics in regards to anything *special* necessary to get thier setup (the reluctor sensor, cam sensor) working with a LS1 harness and the LT1 harness together...

I mean if it is a simple matter that "thier stuff" plugs directly into the stock connectors on the LS1 harness, no big deal. I mean seriously, if it is just a matter of de-pinning the LT1 PCM connectors, the LS1 PCM connectors for the same sensors, pinning into the LS1 connector and running the coil wiring harness, crank sensor wiring and cam sensor wiring into place then that is fine... I mean you are talking about repinning about 24-37 or so wires from the LT1 PCM to the LS1 PCM and then running the previously mentioned LS1-specific wires into place... I mean, honestly, you are talking about, at most, maybe 2-3 hours worth of work... And that is AT MOST!

I mean hell, it woudl take all of a couple hours to go through the wiring diagrams to map it all out, then wiring it up... I say 4-5 hours at most start to finish... For the $800 for the wiring harness that is QUITE a savings for someone like me...

Also, once it is mapped (like I am sure they already had to do), big deal to give that info away... With that info, including wire lengths to extend wiring if needed, it could be cut down to a couple hours at most to repin and get the harness back into place and hooked up...

My issue is with them making it sound like some overtly big deal, which is a marketing tactic, nothing else...

I mean if they came out, explained anything 'specific' to the wiring (such as a specific connector for the cam sensor and what is needed and where it gets wired to on the LS1 PCM, for example), and gave a much more 'assistive' attitude in looking at selling as many LT1 conversion 'kits' as possible, then no big deal...

The big issue is that they are in business primarily doing EFI connectivity, which means that harnesses is thier PRIMARY reason for being in business... And honestly $800 doesn't seem like much, but considering that we all have the LT1 side of the harness already and if we are going to source the LS1 PCM, coils, maf, etc, it is HIGHLY likely we can also get a hold of a harness for dirt cheap, thus making the ability for ourselves to put the two together a VERY cheap alternative...

I just see it as a company trying to sell more product, which, honestly, is why they are business, to make money, but sell to those that NEED it, not those you can bully and lie your way into purchasing something... I can't stand marketing bullshit and that is all I am seeing in how they come across on this...

 

Well guys, he's right. It is not my place to sell products on the forum without being a supporting vendor. This thread was...
- started by a board member
- I came in to provide supporting information of EFI Connection's efforts
- clarifying questions were asked by board members
- I provided answers to the best of my knowledge

I guess you could say that the problem began when I started responding to the questions, "How much will it cost?" The thread evolved from working concept to final product and when final product came, I crossed the line by providing answers to the "cost?" question.

As for the rest of The Beast's comments, it's frustrating and discouraging to be misunderstood (as being greedy, not helpful, and arrogant) and even slammed for not offering certain products/services. EFI Connection can not possibly do everything related to this 24x early small block and LT1 system. I hope our efforts are appreciated for what we can and do offer to the LT1 and LT4 engines. My apologies that EFI Connection is not a paying, supporting member. Times are tough for everyone today, and unforunately it seems that for me to continue to share information about this system on the forum, it will cost EFI Connection about $3000 per year (minimum) in board fees.

I hope no one else really thinks we're hoarding wiring information. Making an LS1 harness to fit an LT1 engine is not necessarily overly complicated, but it's not for everyone. I would encourage everyone interested to check out Helm, Haynes, Chilton, and http://www.alldatadiy.com for wiring diagrams to help with your project. Unfortunately, EFI Connection can not offer a used harness rework service. And, unfortunately, I sincerely mean that we can not offer a rework service. It goes so far beyond making money. Thank you to those who have posted above who recognize this.

As mentioned previously, we're using all GM sensors. The electronics are not propriatary to EFI Connection. Pull out the GM wiring diagrams and have fun with it. This is a great opportunity for the DIYers.

Why is it that when an enthusiast is aligned with a business that he can no longer make remarks as an enthusiast and be considered sincere? What a shame.

 

Because as a business there is no sinceriety outside of making a profit. Sorry, that is the way it has to be, but that is the way YOU have set it up, especially based on your posts.

The last post was the only one that started out on the somewhat nice side, but in the end the ugliness comes out once more. And again, when did YOU converting a harness become such a major issue. Supply the info and let people buy your parts and a NEW harness if they need it, otherwise they are on thier own to do the rest themselves. I don't think it was ever stated in here that people wanted YOU to do THIER harness with thier parts. I am sure some without skills would like that to save some money, but a simple "we don't touch used parts" would have sufficed to end that...

I do appreciate you clarifying that all GM sensors are used, but that was expected. The main question, is, are the reluctor and cam position sensors plug compatible with the stock LS1 stuff? ie, if we have a LS1 harness, as well as the LT1 harness, do we have all the connectors we need? Or do we need to buy a specific connector for the reluctor and/or the cam sensors?

That is really the only question here. Very simple to answer, but it seems as if it is being evaded?

If the answer is, in fact, YES, that the reluctor and cam sensors are exactly the same as what is on the LS1 harness, fine. STATE THAT! If it is a NO, then ALSO STATE THAT.

I just can't stand the game-playing and BS associated.

I have a funny feeling this request will be ignored, as it will be viewed to reduce harness sales. Again a marketing BS move.

And, as you already stated, times are tough and why the hell should anyone spend $800 on something they can do with just a small investment in time themselves. You already priced the reluctor wheel, the sensor and the cam stuff (which is a fricken raping for those BTW), but if that is the cost of admission, so be it... To further profiteer for a harness is BS...

There is far too much 'you can do this, but you have to buy this' bait and switching and associated BS in this and everything else in life... If you think you can only maximize profits by offering a complete solution that includes a wiring harness, then only offer it that way. It would be the most ignorant thing to do as it would absoloutly kill sales to anyone with a clue and capabilities, as no-one would care to buy a whole new harness if they know for fact that can do it themselves. Just pointing out the obvious.

And to clarify, you almost always only post stuff to try to come across as an expert and/or to sell stuff... Paying marketing costs is the price of doing business. If you don't want to, then don't be in business, or don't mention your company AT ALL! You can infer the product is out there, explain how it works, but let others find it. Otherwise pony up the cash. Harsh reality, and there is NO needing to candy coat things for someone in business... Hell, you can write it off as a business expense, so it is only an up-front commitment.

 

I'm torn on this, I really want to buy the kit, but as The Beast mentioned I can buy the $525 kit and be left pulling my hair out trying to finish the conversion. I 100% understand where EFIC is coming from too, not wanting to deal with used harnesses, but they have to realize that most people that own LT1's are NOT rich and do almost all car mods on a tight budget.

This is an upgrade that needs to be sold as a COMPLETE conversion, either full bolt-on/plug-in or bolt-on/re-pin/plug-in. Those seem to be the only 2 options this system should have, I guarantee a lot of us are wanting to buy the $525 kit but are scared that it may end up being $525 desk ornaments if the rest of the conversion is too difficult to finish without all the proper information. $1400 is A LOT of money for a LT1 conversion, when you can replace the entire LT1 with a used LS1 for about $2000 (including a $500 Speartech conversion harness).

I am still very interested, but cautious.

 

No doubt for anything over $1300 it may be worth to just get a Bigstuff 3 for $1,900 or Fast. I like the idea and already have coils but if I have to pay $800 for a harness, I may go with a used Fast for $800 with harness. Later

 

Great comments here... some seem a little harsh but, still informative so far. I hope this thread about a new mod/conversion doesn't keep going on this haggling contest to lower or defend the pricing. If all you guys believe you have a better product or easier way to do things thats great!,.. Why dont you explain it to us less knowledgable folk!!! Maybe another thread or write up (hint-hint) about how to make/convert our own harnesses for the EFI coil per cylinder setup. Maybe start your own money maker doing it for people since its so easy (so some say). Otherwise, it'd probably serve you better to keep the price wars in PM's.

Sorry for the

I'd really like to see some sort of 'super-basic' tune for the LT1 to run off this setup. I dont know much at all about LS1's. Is the firing order different? What are the initial serious adjustments will have to be made for it to just crank up and run? Not run good, just run.

 

Honestly, if we hear back in regards to the reluctor sensor connector and cam sensor connector, then I would have no problem commiting to putting the wiring info together for everyone...

Hell, I would even cover the '93 differences as well as the 94-95 and 96-97 issues as well... If I can get a hold of the various years of the LS1 PCMs (98, 99, 2000-2002) I will cover thier individual requirements as well if there are any...

Honestly, if anyone is near Milwaukee, WI, I have no problems even putting together a base 'stock' tune for the LT1 on the LS1 PCM... I have HP Tuners as well as LT1Edit and Tunercat for both OBDI and OBDII... So, I have all the bases covered...

One caveat on the tune is that I have no problem dedicating my time without expense for a 'stock' basetune for everyone else to use. Don't expect me to do a complete custom tune on some radical setup for free with this setup. So, if anyone has any interest in putting this setup on a bone-stock (cold air and headers/exhaust is fine, but it needs stock cam, stock heads, stock intake manifold and stock throttlebody as well as a stock MAF)...

The last thing I will look into for everyone else is the ABS issues revolving around using a LS1 PCM. If it cannot be made to work with the LT1 ABS I will also see about what it takes to do a LS1 ABS swap. I am one of those people that want my cake and eat it too, thus if this swap is to work it is only viable with an ABS solution as well...

 

I've been very willing to share the following information.

LS2 Cam Sensor
- same connector as 96-97 LT1 crank sensor connector
- Mentioned and pictured in posts #168, #174, #177
- Cam Sensor Connector shown in post #213

Crank Sensor Connector
- same connector as Vortec distributor cam sensor connector
- has been explained on our website for more than a month now at http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonn...n_Gen1_SBC.htm
- Crank Sensor Connector shown in post #213

Firing Order Change
- 2&3 and 7&4
- has been explained on our website for more than a month now at http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonn...n_Gen1_SBC.htm.
- I've discussed in other forums prior to that

 

Are you serious 95TA Beast?

If this is all so easy, why haven't you posted all the information on the "how to's" already? It would have only taken 4 or 5 hours right? You would have it all finished by the end of tomorrow! And you would be instant hall of fame here!

Go for it! Put your "how to's" and your "schematics" where your mouth is, get them posted up here and make the promise to all that they will work and will be plug and play.

I would even consider making a donation for your efforts.

If you have so much time and are such a generous volunteer worker for all, I salute you! The rest of us need to work for a living! Sad but true.

Cheers man!

 

I can email you the EFILive calibration we are using on the test stand. I emailed this calibration to schwoch1 for the LT1 shown in the videos (post# 185). He loaded the calibration and turned the key. The videos show the results.

The calibration file is NOT a custom OS, so you may even be able to load it into a PCM and read it out with HPTuners and/or TunerCat OBDII. I can't provide those formats.

If Starting from Scratch
I've discussed this elsewhere in other forums...basically you need to:
- begin with an LS1 type calibration (f-body, truck, Corvette, etc)
- correct the fuel injector flow rate (it's a constant for a vacuum operated regulator)
- load the appropriate spark and fuel tables
- load the injector bank assignments from an 01-02 Express Van calibration (for closed loop operation)
- start the engine and begin to tune

There's really nothing tricky about it.

 

I feel that "The Beast" is waaaaaaaay out of line. I started this thread because it's a HUGE leap forward for our vehicles, and since Wildside caught wind of it, he came in and was nice enough to provide all this information free of cost to us. While it's a bummer that you have to be a sponsor to the site to post info regarding the sale of products, I have one HUGE issue with it in this instance: EFI-C is not in any way digging into the business of any other sponsor here since NO other sponsor here offers anything like this. Hell the forums should pay him -_- Alright, not really, but they can at least allow him to continue doing what he's doing w/o making him become a sponsor. This site makes good money for not doing anything but providing a place to talk for users. It doesn't cost a fortune to run a website that is only hosting a BB System. Sure, it gets a fair amount of traffic, but there's plenty of sites out there that offer unlimited bandwidth for dirt cheap. If it's $50/mo * 12 = $600/yr for the site. $3000 * 50 Sponsors (guesstimate) = $150K a year. How many of the Mods here get to see a slice of that pie?

Anyways, it's a moot point, as I'm just an end user and I have no pull in the say of things like this. No one cares what the customer thinks anymore, except the small guys like EFI-C who ARE the customers and are forced to do things themselves, and the end result is the ability to maybe make a buck off it. While EFI-C might be his only source of income, I wouldn't be surprised if he has a 'day job' and this is just a way to make ends meet.

But I digress, for anyone with the knowledge of wiring, this shouldn't be a huge project. I'd be more than willing to get the ECM/PCM pinouts for anyone here for any year LT1 and for any GEN III vehicle you'd be taking the PCM from. And if Wildside is willing to post up that pre-calibrated tune (by that I mean the change of that listed in "starting from scratch) then we're 1/2 way there. All you really need then is a few sensors and the reluctor wheels. Which him charging for the wheels is more than fair considering the time and R&D put into it, and of course the cost of having to have it done. So $100 over the cost to have it made I don't think is too far out of line is it? Maybe Wildside and AKAFRED can get together to cut down the costs of this even more, but that may just be wishful thinking

Thanks for all you've done though Wildside, I won't hold back saying I appreciate the work and effort. Even if some think you're not doing enough for us like The Beast, at least you're doing something, unlike him which is doing nothing but bitching.

 

S10Wildside : thanks for the info on the base tune. I was only asking about it earlier because I was unaware that you are offering it out. I thought up to this point that the "basic - get it running" tune was not being offered. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

I thought that as well, so don't feel bad. And I'm pretty certain that up until recently, he wasn't going to do any tunes or offer out a base. So it's nice he is.

 

Sure, offering our calibration file for the LT1 on the test stand is no problem. Study it, compare it to a stock LS1 calibration, even consider using it to begin with.

Please do not ask EFI Connection to load any calibration into a PCM for you. We don't tune commercially and won't be able to provide calibration support.