betterdays469

I have a question, because my throw out bearing in my 02 trans am just burnt up and the center part of the bearing pushed threw the top of the bearing, and i replaced it with one from the auto parts store, and i'm having problems. I have a spec 3 clutch i installed a year ago with a new flywheel and slave cylinder. Clutch has always engaged about half way down the pedal. Well i put the new throw out bearing in, and now it releases all the way at the top and the clutch slips because it's not engaging all the way. I took it back down and apart, and did the measurements just like I found in another thread about shimming your slave cylinder. Only difference is the part of the bellhousing i left attached to the tranny is different than the diagram, because I unbolted it from the actualy block. So the measurement from the fingers of the pressure plate back to where the bellhousing bolts on is 3 and 3/4 inches, and the measurement from the throwout bearing when bottomed out on the slave to the edge of the bellhousing is 3 and 1/2 inches. So that means when the tranny is bolted on, the pressure plate fingers are coming in 3 and 3/4 inches into the transmission, but only has 3 and 1/2 inches until it hits the throw out bearing, causing it to constantly be slightly engaged by 1/4 inch. I have no idea what has changed, since my clutch has never slipped for the past year and has always engaged half way down the pedal like it should. I first thought the throw out bearing that i got with my spec 3 clutch might have been shorter in height than a stock one, but i called spec and had them measure the throw out bearings they have in their kits, and it is the same as the one i got from the parts store, 1 and 7/8 inches tall. So now i'm lost! I know if the gap was the opposite way, you could shim the slave, but my gap seems to be in the wrong direction. I already took the clutch down and inspected to make sure it wasn't fried, it's still in great condition with only a few thousand miles on it. Any suggestions or anyone else had this problem before?? Sorry about the long post guys, I just can't figure out what changed all of a sudden to make my clutch like this! I have also been messaged by other people having the same problem to find out if i've figured out my problem yet, but ofcourse, i haven't.

fastvet

iTrader: (2)

What about bleeding the system again?

SPEC-01

iTrader: (2)

Did you recently change the slave cylinder? I have seen several different slave depths and this could explain the issue. If you did put a new slave in the car then I would try to compare it to the original...if there is a depth difference then this will explain the issue. Has anything else changed on the car, or have any other parts been replaced? Let me know and I will be happy to provide more info. Thanks!

Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

On the old slave bearing there is a spacer/washer that gets left behind in the slave when you pull the bearing.This will act like another spacer almost 1/8".Add that to maybe a spacer left before and that will show why it's releasing at the top,it's probly not fully engaging the clutch.

betterdays469

Let me start off by aplogizing for not checking back with my post, i subscribed to the post for it to let me know if anyone replied, and i never received an email telling me people were posting. Again, sorry!

I changed the slave cylinder a year ago when i installed the spec 3 clutch. Everything was changed at the same time, the clutch always released where it should, half way down, and never slipped. Then the throw out bearing broke in the weirdest way, so i replaced it. I didn't change anything else. When it was put back together I had the problem I have now. We bled and bled, even gravity bled it. Clutch pedal is normal. When we took the tranny down again, i did those measurements from the throw out bearing to the bellhousing, and bellhousing to the pressure plate fingers, and the measurements show that either the throw out bearing is sticking out 1/4 inch too far, or the pressure plate fingers are sticking out 1/4 inch too far, either way, causing the throw out bearing to be pressing the fingers in when the transmission is bolted up to the motor. That's why my pedal engages all the way at the top, and the clutch slips, as if i was riding the clutch. I have no idea what could change in a year's time. As far as the ring in the slave cylinder, this confused me. Is there a rubber seal inside the throw out bearing? Because i do have one in there that seals it from the fluid dripping out. The throw out bearing i have doesn't have a rubber seal that goes into the slave cylinder, it's hard plastic. I had tried installing the throw out bearing without that rubber seal in there, but it leaked fluid with the throw out bearing installed, and that wasn't even under pressure, so I reinstalled that seal. The problem still remains in the measurements, when i measure, the throw out bearing is sitting flush on the slave cylinder, and the measurements are still off. I'm wondering what could change on the clutch side of the motor, because nothing has changed on the slave cylinder, and the throw out bearing is the same size/length. I dunno, i'm lost guys. It just doesn't make any sense. I've even thought about getting a spacer made or finding if anyone makes one for the bellhousing of the transmission, to make the transmission sit back further from the motor. Because not only is it 1/4 inch off on my measurements, but i've also read that there should be a 1/8 inch game from the throw out bearing to the pressure plate fingers, so i would need a 3/8 inch spacer.. But i can't imagine that being a good idea, but i'm running out of options!

SPEC-01

iTrader: (2)

The only thing that affects clutch stack height is wear. Assuming that this clutch wasn't mysteriously used in another car while your car was down for the slave cylinder replacement then it is safe to say the wear is the same as it was when the transmission was last pulled. Correct me if I am missing something in your timeline.

You indicate that there is a 1/4" difference somewhere...lets figure out where that difference lies. Measure the stack-height of the clutch (from the crank mounting surface on the back of the flywheel to the diaphragm finger peak) as well as the total thickness of the disc being used. When and from where was this originally purchased? Let me know so I can provide info relative to the original thickness of this disc. (As a side note, on 2/8/08 we changed the thickness of our 11" discs.)

betterdays469

The stack height from the crank where the flywheel bolts on, to the finger's peak is 3 and 1/2 inches. The thickness of the clutch disc is 3/8 of an inch. Are these measurements correct, or is something off?

And what I was saying is that there is 3/8 of an inch difference, because my measurements indicate that the throw out bearing is riding 1/4 inch into the diaphragm fingerrs, and if you add the 1/8 inch that the throw out bearing is supposed to sit away from the fingers, that is 3/8 of an inch the throw out bearing needs to come back, or clutch stack needs to move forward.

SPEC-01

iTrader: (2)

The starting stack height of our stage 3+ is 3.120". This means that your total stack, if properly measured is actually .380" taller. Disc wear will affect this measurement, leading to a higher stack as the diaphragm fingers rise accordingly. The starting measurement of the disc is .340" before 2/8/08 and .350 after 2/8/08. This means that there has to be a missmeasurement somewhere because you indicate that the disc thickness is .375" which is thicker than we are able to build a disc in the first place.

When you measured the stack height did you have the clutch bolted to the flywheel, with the disc installed? If not then this will lead to an incorrect measurement.

betterdays469

yes everything was bolted in place with the disc in place. The car was back together, and the tranny was dropped yesterday and the measurement was taken with evertything in place, then the disc was taken out and measured seperately. I bought this clutch 1 year ago, i can't be sure of the exact day, feb. or march. I have to look for the receipt. It was from an online store, again i can't remember which one because i bought parts from ws6store and maybe slowhawk also..I'm pretty sure it was late feb. to march when i purchased it.
I had someone else measure the stack height and the disc yesterday, i'm sure the disc was just measured with a tape measure and 'guesstimated', so i can have him check again today. The thing is like brand new though, it has maybe 4 thousand miles on it if that. Do you have the individual measurements of all the components of the stack so i can check each one, along with the flywheel thickness also? According to your measurements of stack height and my measurements in the beginning of where the throw out bearing sits, they are both 3/8 of an inch off, so my problem lies in the stack height it looks like. If you could shoot those numbers off to me today i can go measure everything individually. I appreciate your help!

SPEC-01

iTrader: (2)

The stack height is 3.120". Dependent on the date of purchase the disc thickness will be .310" (if bought prior to 2/8/08) or .350" if bought after this date. The flywheel has a measurement of .830" from the friction surface to the crank mounting surface on the back of the flywheel. These are all the measurements you should need to determine the issue. But, since the part worked originally and as such would have had the correct geometry it is my guess that something else is going on. You haven't put a spacer behind the flywheel or anything have you?

betterdays469

what about the height of the pressure plate with the fingers, what's the measurement on that? because so far all the measurements on this end match up to yours. The clutch disc measurement is .321", give or take, so i must have gotten the thicker disc. The thickenss of the flywheel from friction to mounting surface is about .820 he said... So the last thing is the pressure plate where something is wrong. And no, I didn't put a spacer behind the flywheel! haha..i wish i had, that would be an easy solution, cuz this is driving me insane.

SPEC-01

iTrader: (2)

The height of the finger is taken into account when measureing the stack height. This is due to the fact that the fingers, when measured in an unbolted state will be higher. They pull down when bolted to the flywheel. So, what is the stack height of your unit?

SPEC-01

iTrader: (2)

As a side note, if you started with a .350" disc then you have worn enough material away that the diaphragm fingers will be higher then they started. In fact the normal wear total for a disc is usually about .025" meaning that if you started with a .350" disc that it your height issues may be relative to disc wear.

betterdays469

Well i'm not sure how it could have worn that much with only 4,000 miles on it. the disc still looks brand new, and it's still thicker than the thinner one you guys used to sell. So here's my question, you say that my disc wear might have something to do with the stack height, but if that's the case, then what would have happened if i had bought the old disc that is only .310"? My stack height would have started even taller than what i have now, and my clutch wouldn't have worked at all? Something just doesn't make sense to me I guess.

I already measured the stack height in the beginning and gave you that measurement, now it's taken apart because i wanted to measure each part individually to make sure they are all the right size. The only thing i haven't measured and checked is the pressure plate height with the fingers. I understand that the fingers go down when bolted up, but the measurement when not bolted up should still be the same size as a new one right? So what's the measurement from the mounting surface to the fingers when not bolted up to the flywheel?? And i will check that against the measurement i get. Then i will bolt it all together again and take another measurement of the total stack height just to be sure the first measurement was correct. This is a very frustrating problem! I would hate to think that the little bit of wear on my disc is causing all this just from less than a year of driving and minimal miles. I spent good money for this clutch set up.

SPEC-01

iTrader: (2)

The point of my reference to the bolted down height being appropriate is due to the impact that wear has on the height of the diaphragm fingers. I will check the numbers for the plate alone and let you know as soon as I can but it will not be a solid indicator of any issue. That being said, above you mention that the stack of your assembly is 3.750" which is over 1/2" taller than it should be. Was this measurement taken with the clutch bolted to the flywheel and the disc in place between them? Also, you said that the parts worked fine in before the bearing issue correct? It seems odd that it worked fine and then didn't and the only thing that changed was the bearing. I am not pointiing my finger at the bearing because you seem to have measured it...but something doesn't add up.

betterdays469

Right, the only thing that was changed was the bearing. But I called Spec and had them measure the height of the throw out bearing that comes in their kits, so i could compare it to the replacement i bought from the auto parts store. Sure enough, it was the same. I was hoping it would be different because then i would just purchase a new throw out bearing from spec, but that wasn't the case. The throw out bearing would have to be 3/8 of an inch shorter than the one i have.

My clutch always seemed to work fined, seemed to engage in the right spot of the pedal. But my throw out bearing went out for a reason i would think? Since i've never heard of a throw out bearing going out in less than a year with minimal driving. I don't race my car, i hardly use the thing really.
I don't understand how my stack height could be that far off, but when measuring each individual piece they are all the right measurement.
On a side note, is there a difference between clutch kits for an LS1 engine and an LS6 engine?

The stack height of the assembly is 3.50" when bolted together. The 3.75" that you're referencing was the measure i took from the motor where the bellhousing bolts onto, to the fingers. Those were the original measurements i was taking to find out how far my throw out bearing was resting on the fingers when the tranny was bolted in place.

The only thing so far that i can see anything out of the ordinary is the clutch disc thickness. But damn, the thing looks brand new still, i don't know why it would have worn so fast, and how the current measurement would effect my stack height so much. You said the height should be 3.120", and mine measures 3.50", roughly. I don't have the right tools to measure everything so precisely, but from those measurements i'm about 3/8" off correct?

betterdays469

and by the way, incase i haven't said it already, i appreciate all your help thus far. Thank you for your time

SPEC-01

iTrader: (2)

Just call me for an RMA# and then you can send the unit in for a check-up. I am in the office from 8am until 5pm Monday thru Friday. I will be happy to check over the parts and see if I find anything. If there is nothing wrong with the parts then it is clear that the issue lies between the back of the motor and the back of the bell housing or between the steering wheels and the driver's seat (I am just kidding...LOL).

jerflash

well after not putting somany miles on my spec...maybe 5000 but the car does not drive much the clutch is doing the same as yours...releasing right at the top and sliping in any gear above 1st when you hit the gas even a little hard. i dont know why its doing this other then its warn and not fully disengauging

slvr98camaro

iTrader: (1)

try bleeding it with a mityvac

my clutch did this till i bled it over and over