Cali99SS

iTrader: (1)

I used the search and couldn't find anything that was similar to my experience.

I have an SSI faceplated T56. I got to drive my car (64 Nova SS) for 650 miles and one pass down the quarter. First pass was 11.74 @ 119 mph. First time ever for me or my car down the Quarter. Launch RPM was way too low, 4000 RPM. Rev limiter set too low, 7500 RPM. I shift on the limiter without the clutch.

Second pass, launch then try to shift into second. Nothing. Bounce off the limiter. Let off the gas shift to third fine, cruise to turn out. Try to shift into second. The shifter goes in where second is supposed to be. Let clutch out, nothing. Second gear MIA.

Go home. Tear down Trans and find.

Normal:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...9/SNC00062.jpg

Second gear faceplate, kinda:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...9/SNC00063.jpg

Now I am going to try to get either the G-Force dogring gears, doubtful. Or, the newer designed Liberty's with 7 "teeth" wider at bottom vs. 9 "teeth" narrower at bottom.

Hopefully it works better than before.

My 383 SBC makes 589 Hp and 449 Tq. Just a smidge under the 700/700 guarantee.

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

G-force offers their 22 degree gear sets with faceplating.

Andrew

Cali99SS

iTrader: (1)

Yeah. I don't have another $5950 on top of the $2600. Also, they only have a 2.29 first gear through Rockland. I'm looking for either 2.66 or maybe 2.97. If I can get the gears from g-force in what I need that would be great.

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

The other ratios are available as well from Rockland.

Andrew

drz

iTrader: (3)

SSI used Libery's Gears to faceplate their gear sets. Here's a line straight from the Liberty's Gears website:

"Pro shifting and face plating does NOT make your transmission clutchless. The shock load of shifting without the clutch will cause severe damage to your transmission"

http://www.libertysgears.com/faceplate.htm


The faceplate mod is simply a way to eliminate missed shifts, but the clutch must still be used during the shifts. You might be able to get by with a carefully set-up slipper-clutch (like the McLeod Soft-Loc that SSI had in their car), but then even so-called "clutchless" transmissions that are designed to take the additional shock of clutchless shifting most always require a slipper clutch as well. . . . The only exception I can think of off-hand is the G-force GF5R with the torsion-bar option that uses a multi-piece output shaft that absorbs the shock in a special torsion insert.

Cali99SS

iTrader: (1)

I understand that the clutch is supposed to be used. However, if you'll notice, I shift on the limiter. By doing this, this should have the same effect of unloading the gear just enough to allow the shift change. I personally think the design was weak. Also, I'm not the only one to think this, as Liberty themselves told me this is why they changed to the 7 lug design with a wider base on the lugs and more of a "v" shape on the slider.

I was told by Rockland yesterday that they only offer the 2.29 with the dog ring. And their sales guy was trying his hardest to convince me to go that direction. Not gonna happen. I'm looking for MORE mechanical advantage, not less. I have 2.66 now. If anything, I will go to the 2.97 through Liberty. If I can get the G Force gears in the ratios I want from G Force, I will.

thesource

iTrader: (60)

Face plated and proshifted units still require a clutch to be used upon shifting gears .

Send the gear into Liberty and have them re-do it for you .

WS6TransAm01

iTrader: (13)

took the words right out of my mouth.

I was always told that unless you have a slipper clutch.

I have not raced my Tick Performance face-plated unit yet, but driving it around the parking lot made it seem like the best race transmission ever! I had good luck with the stocker for a long time, [10.32 on a stock T-56] I cant wait to rip this one down the track, but I WILL use the clutch lol

drz

iTrader: (3)

Ah, but all "road-race" style clutchless transmissions that allow both up and down-shifts require some sort of interrupt to get them out of gear just the same. Simply lifting off the throttle for a moment does the same thing, as does the ignition-cut system you find on sequential road-race transmissions - but none of those magically soften the hit of inertia from the flywheel - when the next gear is engaged you might as well be hitting the face-plates with the 30lb+ sledge that is your flywheel instead of a soft rubber mallet (slipper).

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

Very good point regarding the weight of the clutch/flywheel assembly. When I had my LSx powered RX7 I was using a Liberty dogring box. I noticed a tremendous difference in the shift quality and speed when I went from a stock LS6 clutch/flywheel assembly to a Quarter Master 8.5" single disk assembly that weighed 20 pounds including the flywheel!

Give Rockland another call. I talked to them at length at the PRI show and they said that any gear set can be ordered in a dog ring configuration. They keep the 2.20 set in stock, but supposedly can order the other ratios. Maybe they mislead me, I don't know.

Here is another option:

http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/page.asp...1&productid=33

Andrew

Cali99SS

iTrader: (1)

I talked to the guys a G-Force and they told me they only make the 2.29 for Rockland. That is the only gear they have requested. Also, the Rockland guys must think they are sitting on gold. $6k to change over to their gear set.

The guys at Liberty are going to redo the gears to the 7 lug plate and slider. They also said that shifting on the limiter has the same effect as using the clutch. As long as there is a release of force the shift can be made. I will keep everybody up to date when the new gears get in.

WS6TransAm01

iTrader: (13)

I have one further question then...

Why would you want to hit the limtier before shifting? Would this not slow you down? In theory; you are waiting for the engine to hit the limiter, loose a ton of power and then shift? Would you not want your shift point to be slightly below your rev-limiter?

I would think that a well timed, quick, and accuratly exicuted aplication of the clutch would create a better result in your ET then hitting the rev-limiter in order to shift. The road race guys that use an interupt on the shift with a "clutchless" transmission only have the interupt accur when shifting. It is not a rev-limiter but usualy a timing interupt once the shift has been initialized with the shifter lever.

Seems to me like you should use your clutch pedal, rather then waiting for the rev-limiter to shift.

I have a 7000rpm shift point and a 7200rpm limiter. My shift light goes on at 7000rpm and if you look at my vids I am pulling the shift as the light is coming on. On the data logger my shifts accur between 7000 and 7050rpm almost every time, meaning that I am hitting my shift point "perfect" and never hit the limiter. With a 200rpm buffer, and WOT, I shift quick enough not to hit the limiter within 200rpm. This is all with a stock T-56. A face-plated unit will let you shift faster still.

If I were you, I would use the clutch, since it is not a slipper, this way you will break less parts by using them inproperly.

Just my $0.02. But what the hell do I know...

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

For what its worth, I too prefer to use the clutch while shifting a dog ring trans. I keep my throttle foot planted and just barely tap the clutch. Keep in mind that that the clutch does not have to release fully, it just has to slip so that load is taken off the input shaft.

Andrew

thesource

iTrader: (60)

And thats exactly how it should be done .........

WS6TransAm01

iTrader: (13)

I used to shift my stock T-56 almost that way... Im sure I more than just "barely" taped the clutch pedal... but I never moved it all the way to the floor on the shift.

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

That's hard on synchros, but dog rings will not experience any issues.

Here is a video of a pass in my RX7. It's not my best, but it's the only pass I have on video. Eventually I ran a 10.95@125.xx

Andrew