Possible dissengagement issue? Please comment
04-13-2009, 02:35 PM
#1
Possible dissengagement issue? Please comment Winter mods included a transmission rebuild. Clutch has about 1,200 miles as does master & slave (practically new). Am preping the car to bring out of storage. Slave compresses pressure plate fingers approximately 1/2".
When car is running & I go to put it in gear, it starts to move as if the clutch is not fully dissengaged. This can't be because I drilled a hole in the bell housing so that I could see what is happeningwhen the clutch pedal is pushed. Everything appears to be working perfectly. Torqued the pp bolts to 70 FT-# while re-assembling.
Am thinking that I should just force it into first & that things will lossen up after driving for a while. Comments please
When car is running & I go to put it in gear, it starts to move as if the clutch is not fully dissengaged. This can't be because I drilled a hole in the bell housing so that I could see what is happeningwhen the clutch pedal is pushed. Everything appears to be working perfectly. Torqued the pp bolts to 70 FT-# while re-assembling.
Am thinking that I should just force it into first & that things will lossen up after driving for a while. Comments please
04-14-2009, 10:04 AM
#2
Advice from trans rebuild shop & clutch manufaturer is to check the friction plate installation. If installed backwards will hang up & not dissengage. Knowing my tendancy for making mistakes, it is likely that I installed the friction plate backwards. Will take pics & comment for archival purposes.
Am not looking forward to spending the day on the cold garage floor trying to push an impossible to align transmission back into the pilot bearing;......that is, once I reach the re-install part of the project. Damnit!
Am not looking forward to spending the day on the cold garage floor trying to push an impossible to align transmission back into the pilot bearing;......that is, once I reach the re-install part of the project. Damnit!
04-14-2009, 01:56 PM
#3
OK....................problem found. The input shaft on the re-built transmission was 1/8" to 5/32" too long. It pushed the pilot bearing 1/8"+ into it's hole in the crank & then the splined input shaft on the transmission mated or pressed into the crank shaft bore by 1/8"+. So, when the clutch was dissengaged, the splined shaft remained engaged in the crank bore. This is why the transmission wouldn't separate from the engine.
Good thing that I didn't force the issue & try & drive it. Thanks to Spec Clutch who discussed the possibility of a clutch related issue as I was diagnosing the problem. In the end, it wasn't at all clutch related, but it sure was nice to have Spec to talk to as possibilities were eliminated.
Good thing that I didn't force the issue & try & drive it. Thanks to Spec Clutch who discussed the possibility of a clutch related issue as I was diagnosing the problem. In the end, it wasn't at all clutch related, but it sure was nice to have Spec to talk to as possibilities were eliminated.
04-14-2009, 04:41 PM
#7
Should have been more specific. "New" input shaft + internals were installed into a D&D performance GM Viper T-56. Work was done locally w/ replacement parts sent to them from D&D. Shop states that all part numbers were confirmed w/D&D. Am awaiting a further explanation as to what may have happened. Bell housing is the same. The length of the new input shaft is the issue.
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04-14-2009, 06:18 PM
#10
Should have been more specific. "New" input shaft + internals were installed into a D&D performance GM Viper T-56. Work was done locally w/ replacement parts sent to them from D&D. Shop states that all part numbers were confirmed w/D&D. Am awaiting a further explanation as to what may have happened. Bell housing is the same. The length of the new input shaft is the issue.
Just my thoughts.. D&D will know for sure.
04-14-2009, 06:54 PM
#11
What specs were given to D&D for the parts? Most of the D&D GM viper trans I've seen are for the adapter plate and SBC/SFI bellhousings. These shafts are machined 1/2" longer to accomodate the plate. Could have been a crossed-signal in the ordering.
Just my thoughts.. D&D will know for sure.
Just my thoughts.. D&D will know for sure.
I know that D&D was specific when asking the shop about the application & noted that there were different shafts, @ that time. If the splines on a stock input shaft are designed to be 3/8" from the pilot bearing, then it sounds like we received the 1/2" longer shaft. If the splines are supposed to mate right up to the pilot bearing (flush to the flywheel), then we got one that is 1/8"+ long. Should know more tomorrow, but it seems like the 1/2" longer scenario is what has happened. Thankfully, the pilot shaft wasn't any longer, cuz it would have had some effect (probably not a good one) on the freeze plug inside of the crank shaft.
04-15-2009, 08:42 AM
#12
You guys ready for this one???????.................................
It's a Ford input shaft. D&D had no fault in the mistake. The shop ordered the wrong input shaft. The good news is that I went over everything w/ D&D and the installation did not cause any damage to the transmission. The pilot bearing diameter of the Ford shaft is larger than a GM & the over all length of the Ford shaft is shorter than a GM. So, the larger diameter Ford pilot end simply pushed the pilot bearing 1/8" into the crank bore & got stuck into the then frozen bearing. A new GM shaft & pilot bearing & she'll be good to go.
It's a Ford input shaft. D&D had no fault in the mistake. The shop ordered the wrong input shaft. The good news is that I went over everything w/ D&D and the installation did not cause any damage to the transmission. The pilot bearing diameter of the Ford shaft is larger than a GM & the over all length of the Ford shaft is shorter than a GM. So, the larger diameter Ford pilot end simply pushed the pilot bearing 1/8" into the crank bore & got stuck into the then frozen bearing. A new GM shaft & pilot bearing & she'll be good to go.
04-16-2009, 12:35 PM
#13
Transmission shop is claiming that it's no fault of theirs. 
They won't be getting away with that attitude, but just thought I'd note it. Offered them a very inexpensive solution which will involve another day of my time + the graciousness of D&D Performance. The transmission shop wants to play hard ball. Good news is that it will be fixed correctly. Just an update, am not looking for legal feddback or opinion. To me, it's a no-brainer; take my minimum cost scenario & be done with it.
They won't be getting away with that attitude, but just thought I'd note it. Offered them a very inexpensive solution which will involve another day of my time + the graciousness of D&D Performance. The transmission shop wants to play hard ball. Good news is that it will be fixed correctly. Just an update, am not looking for legal feddback or opinion. To me, it's a no-brainer; take my minimum cost scenario & be done with it.
04-21-2009, 11:47 AM
#14
Transmission received the correct "GM/Viper" input shaft this morning. Will re-install transmission, along w/ a new pilot bearing, during the week.
Thanks to Joe @ D&D Performance. D&D Performance graciously shipped the transmission shop the correct "GM/Viper" shaft in exchange for the returned Ford shaft; even though it was the trans shop @ fault.
The trans shop wanted to walk away from the problem even after having initially insisted on ordering the parts themselves so that they could mark them up as part of the transmission work. LESSON LEARNED
In the future, will deal directly w/ D&D Performance for any of my GM/Viper tranmsission needs.
Thanks to Joe @ D&D Performance. D&D Performance graciously shipped the transmission shop the correct "GM/Viper" shaft in exchange for the returned Ford shaft; even though it was the trans shop @ fault.
The trans shop wanted to walk away from the problem even after having initially insisted on ordering the parts themselves so that they could mark them up as part of the transmission work. LESSON LEARNED
In the future, will deal directly w/ D&D Performance for any of my GM/Viper tranmsission needs.
04-21-2009, 06:09 PM
#15
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This was certainly a different kind of post.
With the pilot bearing properly installed the transmission should easily slide right flush up against the bellhousing.
If the input shaft was to long to begin with, the installer must have used the adapter plate
bolts to pull the transmission tight up againt the bellhousing.
And yes D&D is a good company to deal with.
At least all is well now.
.
With the pilot bearing properly installed the transmission should easily slide right flush up against the bellhousing.
If the input shaft was to long to begin with, the installer must have used the adapter plate
bolts to pull the transmission tight up againt the bellhousing.
And yes D&D is a good company to deal with.
At least all is well now.
.
Last edited by bearcatt; 04-21-2009 at 06:15 PM.
04-21-2009, 07:38 PM
#16
This was certainly a different kind of post.
With the pilot bearing properly installed the transmission should easily slide right flush up against the bellhousing.
If the input shaft was to long to begin with, the installer must have used the adapter plate
bolts to pull the transmission tight up againt the bellhousing.
And yes D&D is a good company to deal with.
At least all is well now.
.
With the pilot bearing properly installed the transmission should easily slide right flush up against the bellhousing.
If the input shaft was to long to begin with, the installer must have used the adapter plate
bolts to pull the transmission tight up againt the bellhousing.
And yes D&D is a good company to deal with.
At least all is well now.
.
Yah, & installer was me. I have such a difficult time lining it up & getting it in there, while laying on the floor under the car, that I thought nothing of it while installing this one w/ the incorrect input shaft. Although, it was more difficult that I had remembered it being, @ the time. No adapter plate, just bell housing. Anyway, all is well, as you stated. So, bring on the good Spring weather.
04-21-2009, 10:16 PM
#17
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Yah, & installer was me. I have such a difficult time lining it up & getting it in there, while laying on the floor under the car, that I thought nothing of it while installing this one w/ the incorrect input shaft. Although, it was more difficult that I had remembered it being, @ the time. No adapter plate, just bell housing. Anyway, all is well, as you stated. So, bring on the good Spring weather.
LOL ...
After doing it a half dozen times... it gets pretty easy. Once you get the hang of it, it will slide right in there. Of course having the right input shaft might help too. That's what I call getting the shaft on the shaft.
Anyways, I'm glad you got it fixed and hopefully you'll get some good weather, so you can enjoy the fruits of your labor. It was 100+ degrees the last two days here.
.