Attn: Camarohaulic- rebuilding tranny myself
03-31-2004, 03:42 AM
#1
Attn: Camarohaulic- rebuilding tranny myself I'm ready to send you a first-class ticket to Louisville, Kentucky so you can show me how to do it. The usual problem: stuck in fourth....
-What would you consider harder: a tranny rebuild or a rear-end gear swap?
-I have no idea what is involved or the terminology. All I know is that I should buy a manual from D&D ($15) and a Snap Ring Plier from Snap-On ($35). I was talking to a buddy of mine and he was telling me that he needed a first-gear ring puller when he rebuilt a T-5. Will I need this?
-I am going to pull it first and then decide what parts I need like you said but how do I know what parts are broken? You said you did yours your first time without any prior experience so will it be blatently obvious? Where do I order the parts from and does anyone sell any stronger, better aftermarket parts? The only thing I have heard to do is use a 3/4 steel shift-fork from a Viper. What about 1/2 and 5/6? Any need in building up anything in 5/6? Any advice would really help. Thanks. Mike W.
P.S. This tranny has never seen more than 20 track passes with 2,500 rpm dumps on street tires. This was two years ago when the car was stock. I did go through a phase where I power-shifted from first to second (15-20 times). It felt great and didn't grind or anything. Think it contributed still, that was 10k miles ago (41k now)? I have a pro-5.0 and use the stops. I put the shifter all the way in third and fourth and backed the screw off half a turn. Isn't that the correct method?
-What would you consider harder: a tranny rebuild or a rear-end gear swap?
-I have no idea what is involved or the terminology. All I know is that I should buy a manual from D&D ($15) and a Snap Ring Plier from Snap-On ($35). I was talking to a buddy of mine and he was telling me that he needed a first-gear ring puller when he rebuilt a T-5. Will I need this?
-I am going to pull it first and then decide what parts I need like you said but how do I know what parts are broken? You said you did yours your first time without any prior experience so will it be blatently obvious? Where do I order the parts from and does anyone sell any stronger, better aftermarket parts? The only thing I have heard to do is use a 3/4 steel shift-fork from a Viper. What about 1/2 and 5/6? Any need in building up anything in 5/6? Any advice would really help. Thanks. Mike W.
P.S. This tranny has never seen more than 20 track passes with 2,500 rpm dumps on street tires. This was two years ago when the car was stock. I did go through a phase where I power-shifted from first to second (15-20 times). It felt great and didn't grind or anything. Think it contributed still, that was 10k miles ago (41k now)? I have a pro-5.0 and use the stops. I put the shifter all the way in third and fourth and backed the screw off half a turn. Isn't that the correct method?
03-31-2004, 08:17 AM
#2
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I consider a rear gear swap harder. The reason being, there's more trial and error and measurement involved with setting the pinion depth and the carrier shims. A tranny build is pretty much paint by numbers. Take it apart, put it back together. As long as you're not replacing bearings or the input or output shafts, you don't have to worry about setting the case preload (which is accomplished through a shim that rests under the input shaft bearing).
That said, here's a list of tools I use (just off the top of my head)...
- 2-jaw puller - useful for pulling the speedo reluctor wheel
- SnapOn snap ring pliers, part number SRP1A (from http://www.snapon.com )
- Regular snap ring pliers (small tip) for the 5-6 and Reverse fork snap rings
- *good* T40 socket with longish tip - needed to remove shift feel plate and the shift rail bolts. It helps to heat the shift rail bolts with a torch (they've got Loctite Red on them) and take them out while they're hot
- centerpunch for removing roll pins on shifter socket and stop (I typically just use a nail
)
- bearing splitter and press for removing the 3-4 and 1-2 sliders (they're press fit) - I borrow one from a buddy's shop, and I have a Harbor Freight 20-ton press
And lastly, the worst part of the T56, a 5-6 driven gear puller. I have one from OTC (it's a little under $100). Bought it from KP on the board here. I use it in combination with a huge SnapOn puller that I bought from another board member. If you're only going to do it once, you may be best off taking the tranny apart as far as you can (rear housing, and then all the 5-6 and reverse gear parts up to the 5-6 driven gear) and then taking the tranny to a local transmission shop and paying them $10 to pull it. They can do it in a few seconds.
Now, that's if your 5-6 driven and mainshaft are in good shape. The first time I rebuilt my tranny, my 5-6 driven gear slid right off. I didn't realize at the time, but that wasn't supposed to happen. Looking at the 'worn' 5-6 driven & mainshaft, the splines showed a 'shifting', and the 5-6 driven could actually rotate very slightly back and forth on the mainshaft. This is a sign of wear, and means the 5-6 driven and mainshaft should be replaced. I didn't do that the first time around (didn't realize it), and my tranny ran just fine until I took it apart again (and had rebuilt a few trannies for friends in the process). I put in a new mainshaft and a new 5-6 driven.
To put the 5-6 driven back on (it's a press fit), I use an old 5-6 driven (I've got a couple of them it's a common problem) and set it on top of the one that I'm driving on. Then I take a piece of pipe, a hammer, and 
hit the pipe which is resting on the 'old' gear, which pushes against the new gear.
Buy about 4-6 cans of brake cleaner to clean the parts and the case. You'll also need a wire brush to get the RTV off of the case seals, and you'll need RTV (I use Permatex Black) to seal it back up.
For what to replace?
Plan on the Synchro Kit from http://www.ddperformance.com - it's about $200. Also plan on getting a Snap Ring kit - it's about $15, and well worth it. If you booger the shift rail bolts (like I did on my first rebuild), they're about $8 each. Gears and sliders are expensive (from $100-$150 each). Mainshafts are about $220. You'll want a steel 3-4 fork, which is about $45.
If you look on Ebay, you'll find The Gear Box selling parts. I've dealt with them, good folks there too. But, I've ordered a bunch of parts from D&D now, and they cut me a decent price now on parts.
I don't do mail order rebuilds, and I don't do them often right now (I have very little free time these days). But it can be done.
On my transmission for the first rebuild, I knew what the problem was. I broke second gear trying to do a burnout at the dragstrip. I stripped all the little nubby teeth off of the gear (see http://www.akmcables.com/Second.jpg ). I did the synchro kit, a new second gear, and a new 1-2 slider (the sliders should have a decently sharp edge on the engagement teeth - but mine were rounded almost flat). Turned out fine.
Hope that helps,
Andrew
That said, here's a list of tools I use (just off the top of my head)...
- 2-jaw puller - useful for pulling the speedo reluctor wheel
- SnapOn snap ring pliers, part number SRP1A (from http://www.snapon.com )
- Regular snap ring pliers (small tip) for the 5-6 and Reverse fork snap rings
- *good* T40 socket with longish tip - needed to remove shift feel plate and the shift rail bolts. It helps to heat the shift rail bolts with a torch (they've got Loctite Red on them) and take them out while they're hot
- centerpunch for removing roll pins on shifter socket and stop (I typically just use a nail
)- bearing splitter and press for removing the 3-4 and 1-2 sliders (they're press fit) - I borrow one from a buddy's shop, and I have a Harbor Freight 20-ton press
And lastly, the worst part of the T56, a 5-6 driven gear puller. I have one from OTC (it's a little under $100). Bought it from KP on the board here. I use it in combination with a huge SnapOn puller that I bought from another board member. If you're only going to do it once, you may be best off taking the tranny apart as far as you can (rear housing, and then all the 5-6 and reverse gear parts up to the 5-6 driven gear) and then taking the tranny to a local transmission shop and paying them $10 to pull it. They can do it in a few seconds.
Now, that's if your 5-6 driven and mainshaft are in good shape. The first time I rebuilt my tranny, my 5-6 driven gear slid right off. I didn't realize at the time, but that wasn't supposed to happen. Looking at the 'worn' 5-6 driven & mainshaft, the splines showed a 'shifting', and the 5-6 driven could actually rotate very slightly back and forth on the mainshaft. This is a sign of wear, and means the 5-6 driven and mainshaft should be replaced. I didn't do that the first time around (didn't realize it), and my tranny ran just fine until I took it apart again (and had rebuilt a few trannies for friends in the process). I put in a new mainshaft and a new 5-6 driven.
To put the 5-6 driven back on (it's a press fit), I use an old 5-6 driven (I've got a couple of them
it's a common problem) and set it on top of the one that I'm driving on. Then I take a piece of pipe, a hammer, and hit the pipe which is resting on the 'old' gear, which pushes against the new gear.Buy about 4-6 cans of brake cleaner to clean the parts and the case. You'll also need a wire brush to get the RTV off of the case seals, and you'll need RTV (I use Permatex Black) to seal it back up.
For what to replace?
Plan on the Synchro Kit from http://www.ddperformance.com - it's about $200. Also plan on getting a Snap Ring kit - it's about $15, and well worth it. If you booger the shift rail bolts (like I did on my first rebuild), they're about $8 each. Gears and sliders are expensive (from $100-$150 each). Mainshafts are about $220. You'll want a steel 3-4 fork, which is about $45.
If you look on Ebay, you'll find The Gear Box selling parts. I've dealt with them, good folks there too. But, I've ordered a bunch of parts from D&D now, and they cut me a decent price now on parts.
I don't do mail order rebuilds, and I don't do them often right now (I have very little free time these days). But it can be done.
On my transmission for the first rebuild, I knew what the problem was. I broke second gear trying to do a burnout at the dragstrip. I stripped all the little nubby teeth off of the gear (see http://www.akmcables.com/Second.jpg ). I did the synchro kit, a new second gear, and a new 1-2 slider (the sliders should have a decently sharp edge on the engagement teeth - but mine were rounded almost flat). Turned out fine.
Hope that helps,
Andrew
03-31-2004, 12:33 PM
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03-31-2004, 01:01 PM
#4
Its not that bad to do, I have done several now..
Free manual here: http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/products/T-56.asp
Main thing is keep everything in order and put everything back the way it came out. I just use a hunk of PVC pipe to slide everything on and keep it in order.
Pay attention to little things like the little ring facing the right way on the syncro assembly and when you are ready to put the case on dont put silicone the halves until you you try it a couple times - getting all the shift rails/forks on the right place the first time is a bit of a challange
Free manual here: http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/products/T-56.asp
Main thing is keep everything in order and put everything back the way it came out. I just use a hunk of PVC pipe to slide everything on and keep it in order.
Pay attention to little things like the little ring facing the right way on the syncro assembly and when you are ready to put the case on dont put silicone the halves until you you try it a couple times - getting all the shift rails/forks on the right place the first time is a bit of a challange
03-31-2004, 03:10 PM
#5
Ok, I read every word on the LS2 rebuild page. There are hundreds of parts! It looks very intimidating. What if I get all the **** apart and can't remember or don't know how to get them back on or where? I can't just throw the parts into a box and bring it to my local tranny guy can I? How in the hell do you remember what goes wear? I also looked over the service manual and it just made the parts look even more difficult. When you use the gear puller to get things off, how do you get them back on? Will I be able to look at the pieces and know what is worn or broken? I really appreciate all of the help. Andrew you are awesome, thanks for replying so quickly. But this is overwhelming. I did my cam, valavetrain, intake and header install but there just seems to be too much going on.
I think the local tranny guy is charging too much also. He charges $600 flat labor no mater what it is and estimated parts cost at $600. I don't have $1000-$1400 to have this fixed. Especially when some guys are saying that they have had theres blow up more than once.
I think the local tranny guy is charging too much also. He charges $600 flat labor no mater what it is and estimated parts cost at $600. I don't have $1000-$1400 to have this fixed. Especially when some guys are saying that they have had theres blow up more than once.
08-24-2004, 12:49 PM
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I am really debating on rebuilding my transmission myself. 3rd & 4th gear are toast, typical can't get it out of gear problem. I was also having 3rd gear pop out if I didn't hold it in when engaging the clutch last week which was warning sign number one.
From the pictures and discriptions I have been reading it doesn't look that hard. I have never opened a transmission before but have helped with several SBC rebuilds and done one myself. Which is as deep as I have gotten into cars. I have just done bolt ons and a clutch on my LS1.
How much harder is a t-56 rebuild??? How do you remeber where everything goes??? There are plenty of discriptions on how to take it apart anyone care to explain how to put it all back together??? Do I need a hydraulic press to reinstall the gears??? How do you know everything is lined up correctly?
I will know soon enough (when I open the tranny) but I am hoping to only have to replace my 3/4 shift fork and do a synchro install kit on it. D&D parts, of course.
Anyone in the Chicagoland area rebuilt theirs??? I would be willing to pay for guidance. $50 plus beer and food.
From the pictures and discriptions I have been reading it doesn't look that hard. I have never opened a transmission before but have helped with several SBC rebuilds and done one myself. Which is as deep as I have gotten into cars. I have just done bolt ons and a clutch on my LS1.
How much harder is a t-56 rebuild??? How do you remeber where everything goes??? There are plenty of discriptions on how to take it apart anyone care to explain how to put it all back together??? Do I need a hydraulic press to reinstall the gears??? How do you know everything is lined up correctly?
I will know soon enough (when I open the tranny) but I am hoping to only have to replace my 3/4 shift fork and do a synchro install kit on it. D&D parts, of course.
Anyone in the Chicagoland area rebuilt theirs??? I would be willing to pay for guidance. $50 plus beer and food.
08-24-2004, 12:55 PM
#7
its not bad at all to do the rebuild. you can download the entire rebuild manual off the tremec website. you can also search transmission rebuild on here and you will find all the info you need to do the job. when you take it apart just lay everything out the way it came apart. I did mine the other weekend and it was fairly simple i thought. I bought a press from harbor freight and a set of good snap ring pliers. i bought my recent parts from gearbox.org for a little cheaper than D&D where i bought last time i had the trans freshend up.
JR
JR
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08-24-2004, 11:33 PM
#8
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Overwhelmed T56 Rebuild Don't get so frustrated with it, it's actually very simple if you lay everything out exactly in the order that you take it apart. I've done a couple of them now and haven't had any need to use a press at all. You can take a block of aluminum and hold the main shaft above it about 2 to 3 inches then drop it to get the gears to slide off once you've removed the snap rings. Yeah a VERY GOOD set of snap ring pliers should be used. It also helps to have another person there to help hold it all. To put everything back on, again have another person help you hold it, this time set the main shaft ON the block of aluminum, slide each item down on the main shaft one at a time, take a piece of pipe and put down over the main shaft and use it to drive the sliders and gears in place - putting the snap rings back on after each one is put back on. Think of it as a giant 3D puzzle, for the most part, everything can only go back on in one place.
08-24-2004, 11:41 PM
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Click on the link here, it's a very highly detailed description of rebuilding a T56 with super high quality pictures. This is as step by step as it gets.
T56 Rebuild
T56 Rebuild