Rebuilt T56, New Monster Stage 2 Won't Release Completely
08-04-2015, 09:06 PM
#1
Rebuilt T56, New Monster Stage 2 Won't Release Completely Need some suggestions guys. My T56 5th gear wouldn't engage plus the TO bearing took a crap. So I pulled the trans and rebuilt it with a Tick Level 2 kit with bronze pads, billet keys, etc. I found the 5/6 synchro was bad and also the 5/6 plastic fork pads fell apart so that explains the 5th gear problem. The trans went together well and I didn't replace any bearings. I installed a new Monster Stage 2, steel flywheel, and GM slave in a kit from Monster direct. I also installed a new genuine GM master. During the original install I did not measure for a slave shim (shame on me). After installing everything I bled the system and it seemed like I had good pedal but I had a very hard time shifting into 1st with the engine running and reverse was impossible with the engine running. All gears were no problem with the engine off. I could barely drive the car since 1st was hard to engage but I could rev-match the other gears. I drove it that way for about 10 miles and bled the system more with no improvement.
I kept reading how the Tick master helps with these issues so I ordered one and installed it with basically no improvement. Then I pulled the trans again, and measured for a slave shim. I had right at 2" to the TO bearing and 2.330" to the clutch fingers so I installed .164" shim leaving me .166" gap. After all that I have the same issue. The system is thoroughly bled using the method described in the sticky. I also have a speed bleeder and extension hose that I can stick into the reservoir for additional fast bleeding (works great). The odd thing is that the engagement point of the clutch is way at the top of the pedal throw no matter where I adjust the pedal. When I try to 'ease' it into 1st the car wants to rock forward so I know the clutch is not completely released.
Any ideas? I'm going to call Monster and see what they say.
I kept reading how the Tick master helps with these issues so I ordered one and installed it with basically no improvement. Then I pulled the trans again, and measured for a slave shim. I had right at 2" to the TO bearing and 2.330" to the clutch fingers so I installed .164" shim leaving me .166" gap. After all that I have the same issue. The system is thoroughly bled using the method described in the sticky. I also have a speed bleeder and extension hose that I can stick into the reservoir for additional fast bleeding (works great). The odd thing is that the engagement point of the clutch is way at the top of the pedal throw no matter where I adjust the pedal. When I try to 'ease' it into 1st the car wants to rock forward so I know the clutch is not completely released.
Any ideas? I'm going to call Monster and see what they say.
Last edited by hiltsy855; 08-05-2015 at 08:01 AM.
08-05-2015, 02:37 AM
#2
The tick MC and monster PP will feel like that, you get used to it and learn to love it. The adjustment is basically to ensure complete disengagement while not trashing your PP fingers. I see you did the billet keys and stuff but did you do new blockers and sliders as well?
08-05-2015, 05:47 AM
#3
The Tick Level 2 kit includes carbon fiber blocker rings and I also added 5-6 bronze shift pads and 5/6 synchro. The 1/2 & 3/4 synchros actually looked good and I just flipped the reverse synchro so it has a new face. The clutch looked brand new when I took it apart the 2nd time, as it should with 10 miles on it.
08-05-2015, 09:25 AM
#4
Also wanted to mention that I checked the splines on the input shaft and made sure the disk would slide easily and did not hang up. I did not replace the pilot bearing on the original install since I had replaced it 4 years ago when I installed a Diamond clutch. But I replaced the pilot bearing on the 2nd install just in case.
08-05-2015, 12:13 PM
#5
-With the car off and on a flat surface, put it in 1st
-Start the car and keep the clutch pedal on the floor, foot off the brake and no e-brake
-With the clutch fully depressed rev the engine through the RPMs and see if the car moves at all (do not lift your foot up at any point)
If it moves, you have a clutch/hydraulic disengagement issue
If it doesn't move, your problem is likely elsewhere
08-05-2015, 01:11 PM
#6
The car wants to move with it first gear & the clutch depressed. I don't need to rev it up to make it creep. I'll go thru yet another bleed session tonight but I don't think there's any air in there. I have a 36" hose on a speed bleeder so I just crack the bleeder 1/4 turn, stick the end in the reservoir, and pump the pedal. The fluid level goes up when I push the pedal and back down when I let it up.
If I had air in the system I'd expect the engage / disengage point of the clutch to be close to the floor, but mine is right at the top so any additional pedal travel has to be releasing the clutch further, right?
If I had air in the system I'd expect the engage / disengage point of the clutch to be close to the floor, but mine is right at the top so any additional pedal travel has to be releasing the clutch further, right?
08-05-2015, 02:12 PM
#7
The car wants to move with it first gear & the clutch depressed. I don't need to rev it up to make it creep. I'll go thru yet another bleed session tonight but I don't think there's any air in there. I have a 36" hose on a speed bleeder so I just crack the bleeder 1/4 turn, stick the end in the reservoir, and pump the pedal. The fluid level goes up when I push the pedal and back down when I let it up.
If I had air in the system I'd expect the engage / disengage point of the clutch to be close to the floor, but mine is right at the top so any additional pedal travel has to be releasing the clutch further, right?
If I had air in the system I'd expect the engage / disengage point of the clutch to be close to the floor, but mine is right at the top so any additional pedal travel has to be releasing the clutch further, right?
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08-05-2015, 03:58 PM
#9
The car wants to move with it first gear & the clutch depressed. I don't need to rev it up to make it creep. I'll go thru yet another bleed session tonight but I don't think there's any air in there. I have a 36" hose on a speed bleeder so I just crack the bleeder 1/4 turn, stick the end in the reservoir, and pump the pedal. The fluid level goes up when I push the pedal and back down when I let it up.
If I had air in the system I'd expect the engage / disengage point of the clutch to be close to the floor, but mine is right at the top so any additional pedal travel has to be releasing the clutch further, right?
If I had air in the system I'd expect the engage / disengage point of the clutch to be close to the floor, but mine is right at the top so any additional pedal travel has to be releasing the clutch further, right?
08-05-2015, 10:57 PM
#11
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Where do you have your pedal? It will always fully engage near the top with a tick. The pedal height controls how far the tob moves. So adjusting it higher will stroke the slave further. If you've been down this road already then disregard.
08-06-2015, 05:41 AM
#12
Per the Tick instructions, I started with the pedal low and gradually moved it up. But moving it up didn't help so I lowered it back so it's about even with the brake pedal. If I had the energy I'd stick my old Diamond back in just to see if that fixes it LOL.
08-06-2015, 12:09 PM
#13
Honestly if you had the pedal way too high at any point I would be worried that the PP fingers were damaged. Not sure if SNL is going to offer any alternative troubleshooting without dropping the trans, but you may need to drop it and take another look.
08-06-2015, 01:33 PM
#14
Not sure how one would know if adjusting the pedal higher would make the clutch release without trying it. Monster recommended pulling the trans so I guess I'll be dropping it again tomorrow night. If I feel the need I might stick the Diamond back in.
08-06-2015, 02:27 PM
#16
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I feel really bad that there are those having issues with Monster Clutches. I went with a Monster Stage II ONLY because of the Customer Service and the Reviews that I read....
With that being said, I did my entire clutch swap myself, about 2 months ago when Monster ran their Tax Sale. I, personally, don't trust most shops, so I sucked it up and did it in the parking lot of my gated community. It took me 3 full days to complete it, but I was very thorough and extremely meticulous about the install. In fact, at one point I called Monster and talked to Steve on the phone and several times over email.
When I measured to see if I need a shim, I measured 3 different times and averaged the numbers that I got. Luckily- my car didn't require a shim. I also run a Tick Performance Master Cylinder Adjustable Clutch. I also installed a Tick SPEEDbleeder; however, when I bled the clutch, I didn't just simply open the bleeder-valve and put it into the reservoir. I had my wife assist me, and I opened and closed the bleeder-valve just like you would the traditional way. I simply put the end in an empty water bottle. I bled the reservoir at least 10 times before calling it good. In short, I went through almost an entire bottle of DOT 4 Fluid before I felt I had all the air out, and new fluid throughout the entire system.
As of now, it's been almost 3 months and just at 1,000 miles on my set-up and it runs perfect!! My clutch pedal sits just slightly below my brake pedal. Not quite even, but just below it. I couldn't be any happier with my Monster or Steve. I've saved every email where he assisted me, and at times, I felt I was asking some ignorant questions. But never once did he blow me off.... And trust me, I'm no one special!!
Here is my thread on my clutch install, pictures, description, and a review after 200 miles.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tr...le-review.html
OP- Good Luck!!
With that being said, I did my entire clutch swap myself, about 2 months ago when Monster ran their Tax Sale. I, personally, don't trust most shops, so I sucked it up and did it in the parking lot of my gated community. It took me 3 full days to complete it, but I was very thorough and extremely meticulous about the install. In fact, at one point I called Monster and talked to Steve on the phone and several times over email.
When I measured to see if I need a shim, I measured 3 different times and averaged the numbers that I got. Luckily- my car didn't require a shim. I also run a Tick Performance Master Cylinder Adjustable Clutch. I also installed a Tick SPEEDbleeder; however, when I bled the clutch, I didn't just simply open the bleeder-valve and put it into the reservoir. I had my wife assist me, and I opened and closed the bleeder-valve just like you would the traditional way. I simply put the end in an empty water bottle. I bled the reservoir at least 10 times before calling it good. In short, I went through almost an entire bottle of DOT 4 Fluid before I felt I had all the air out, and new fluid throughout the entire system.
As of now, it's been almost 3 months and just at 1,000 miles on my set-up and it runs perfect!! My clutch pedal sits just slightly below my brake pedal. Not quite even, but just below it. I couldn't be any happier with my Monster or Steve. I've saved every email where he assisted me, and at times, I felt I was asking some ignorant questions. But never once did he blow me off.... And trust me, I'm no one special!!
Here is my thread on my clutch install, pictures, description, and a review after 200 miles.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tr...le-review.html
OP- Good Luck!!
08-06-2015, 03:19 PM
#17
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Man, I'm really sorry to hear you're having this issue. Seems like there has been a rash of them lately. Mine went very smoothly, and has been problem free now for 18 months, other than the rubbing noise it'll sometimes make from a dead stop getting rolling.
08-06-2015, 03:27 PM
#19
Yeah, so you've already been down this road.
Man, I'm really sorry to hear you're having this issue. Seems like there has been a rash of them lately. Mine went very smoothly, and has been problem free now for 18 months, other than the rubbing noise it'll sometimes make from a dead stop getting rolling.
Man, I'm really sorry to hear you're having this issue. Seems like there has been a rash of them lately. Mine went very smoothly, and has been problem free now for 18 months, other than the rubbing noise it'll sometimes make from a dead stop getting rolling.
08-06-2015, 03:57 PM
#20
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That's correct. It does quiet down a bit after some abuse. I think the next time I drop the tranny, I'll put a twin disc in. I've been eyeing the RPS 33# carbon clutch. Expensive, but it looks like it might be worth every penny.