Q3131A

2000 Camaro SS.

I wasn't haveing any clutch problems but fluid was black. Decided to do the procedure posted everywhere.https://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tr...-write-up.html

Did one round and fluid was clean. I went ahead and did 2 more rounds. Clean. I thought the whole pumping thing was supposed to stir up the dirty crap but it didn't.

I went for a drive and guess what. I end up with all the problem I was trying to avoid by changing out the fluid. Every one of them. WTF?

I figure that air got in system but dont understand how. I jack up car to bleed clutch. No clue with this jacked up set up how your supposed to know when there is no more air. All I know is that I was covered in the crap and had it splash in my eyes twice. With safety glasses on. I just kept going till it was a running clean fluid.

Test drive and nothing fixed. I figured it was a problem with 13 year old impatient daughter pushing the clutch.

I lift car again and get set up way better to not get covered. This time had my wife pump the clutch. I already figured out in last run if you fill reservoir to the top you can get 5 pumps in and fluid will be down to full mark. No chance of running dry.

I did this cycle of 5 pumps and fill six times. Figured that was plenty. Nope still all the unwanted clutch woes.

How many cycles should I be doing? How much fluid does system hold? How much fluid should i be running through to completly change?

This is one of those "if it ain't broke, don't fix" it deals. I was trying to be proactive and avoid problems and end up giving them to myself.

AMP-D

1, maybe 2 at the very most with a speed bleeder installed. Its a one man job in about 30-45 seconds.

Q3131A

Unfortunately I don't have the remote speed bleeder. I'm doing it the factory way.

Today I did a 40 minute session using up all the fluid I had left. My wife working clutch, me under car bleeding and out topping off reservoir. Through this whole process I used a 32 oz. bottle of fluid!

Now it's even worse. Have to pump a couple times to get in gear then it's engaging with pedal to the floor. Car is now undrivable. WTF?

Jtm2085

iTrader: (1)

Try a mity vac

Kevin01Z28

iTrader: (8)

Sounds like your wife and/or daughter were releasing the pedal before you closed the bleeder. It doesn't take that much fluid to bleed the system. Either you are introducing air into the system or you have a failing master or slave cylinder.

If you have to pull the trans for any reason, spend 50 bucks and buy a remote speed bleeder. One man job that will take 1 or 2 minutes instead 30 to 45 minutes with a helper.

Q3131A

Tried a mighty vac. Not one bubble of air.

Would like to try one of those Motive pressure bleeders if I could find one local.

I keep blaming daughter then wife. Ironic I'd have a failing master or slave exactly when I'm trying to change fluid.

Q3131A

Called local transmission shop to get a quote on having them bleed clutch. $95 an hour, however long it takes. I ask if they do it with a couple guys or use some kind of special machinery. He said old fashion 2 guys.

He then asked what I replaced. I told him nothing, just trying to change out fluid and went through a 32 oz bottle.

He says it sounds like I blew out the master and it's leaking. Around $800 to replace master and slave.

If I pull vacuum at reservoir with mighty vac and it holds doesn't that prove I have no leak?

Kevin01Z28

iTrader: (8)

I agree, but when done properly you don't need any type of suction or pressure type bleeder. You've said you don't have any air in the system, that only leaves the possibility of a failing part. Ironic yes, but not that unlikely given the quality of factory hydraulic parts and the age of our cars.

Kevin01Z28

iTrader: (8)

Guess I should have read down before my other reply.

Depending on how bad a leak is, just applying a small amount of vacuum may not let it show itself. However depressing the clutch puts alot more pressure against your hydraulic system, so it may in fact leak when depressed.

Q3131A

I put mighty vac on and applied 12 whatever. Let it set for good 30 to 45 minutes. No bubbles and pressure never dropped. At end tried short pumps then full pumps. Still no bubbles.

I don't know for a fact there is no air in system. Done all I can to get it out and not let any in. Dont 100% trust my pedal pushers thats why I'm trying to figure something else out.

Centerforce

Are you pushing the needle of the mityvac down into the hose hole in the reservoir?

Q3131A

Yes.

I'm taking my daughter out for food then gonna give it another go. We picked up another bottle of fluid last night.

Hopefully get something. Pedalmis soft and goes straight to floor but won't disengage now.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

I'm able to crack the bleeder just enough to let fluid push through, route hose from the bleeder to the reservoir, and just cycle it with a lot of pumps. The pumps should be < 2 minutes. It's the prep. and not opening it wide open that let the jmd method work.

Q3131A

I've read your method and would gladly give it a try. Ironically I just did a tune up but my wires went out with the trash a matter of days before. They are not 90° boots anyway and I don't have any.

Q3131A

I called Jegs and they have Motive stuff in stock so I decided to run up there. It's on other side of town but we decided to go after eating.

I took my reservoir cap and the guy matched it up. $72 for the kit with that adaptor.

I called Motive and talked to tech support because directions are for brake bleeding. He said go with 15psi instead of the 20psi for brakes. I asked if I should hold pedal down or not. He said he has 2 cars he uses their pressure bleeder on and both different.

It made the process nice because I dumped the whole 32oz bottle in pump and didn't have to worry about running dry.

We tried it both ways. First time with clutch held in, second time out. Still nothing. Clutch will barely disengage.

Q3131A

2 things:

1. It seemed like I bled a lot of fluid. After we were finished I dumped remaining fluid back in bottle. Turns out I only used 1/4 of it, about 8 oz. I don't know what the capacity of the system is. Now I'm feeling like I didn't bleed enough fluid through.

2. After first bleed with pedal down I had my daughter pump it a couple times while still hooked up to pressure tank and bleed valve closed. Several pumps we got big air bubbles come up line. This is odd to me because I never got one bubble with Mityvac.

It's awful ironic the master or slave could have taken a crap at exact time I'm doing this but I'm about ready to start ordering parts. I just dont get how I'm not detecting leak. Mityvac sat there with vacuum around 45 minutes and never lost vacuum. Motive set there even longer pumped up and never lost pressure.

Q3131A

Update. I ordered a Luk clutch master cylinder. Got it last Friday but haven't had time to mess with it till last couple days.

Got it in yesterday and took a nice drive. Knock on wood, all is good again.

A few notes and tips:
•Almost everything came out no problem but quick connection is a joke. I had to walk away first day. I struggled for way to long. Came back a couple days later and removed white collar to try some fuel line tools. Didn't work. I put collar back in but different position. A couple tries and it popped right out.
•I installed new cmc. Only thing left to do was snap that quick connect. I looked over and noticed a new o ring and roll pin for hose. They must have fell out and I missed them. Thank God I didn't snap that quick connection in. I pulled whole thing and reinstalled to put that o ring in.
•I did drill mod but it is only 1 drill bit size over stock hole. Don't see it helping much but then again I never had a problem before.
•Tried to bench bleed cmc. Waste of time because reservoir won't fit under brake booster.
•When installing cmc I hooked it to pedal as soon as I got rod through hole. Then I could lift pedal and it pulled everything up to firewall. Made lining everything up much easier than reaching blindly.
•I used Motive to do bleed myself. Put 2X4 in to hold pedal to floor. Opened bleed valve. Motive pushed fluid and air right through. Only took a couple minutes and hardly used any fluid. Thumbs up for Motive pressure bleeder.

vtirocz

Just use the "JMD method" -- see this link: https://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tr...ng-clutch.html

I thought this was an excellent idea so used this method when I replaced my clutch/master/slave. Worked perfectly for me. Pedal still feels great.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

I used a two step process. First gravity bleed the master through the disconnected clutch line using a Phillips head to open the check valve. Then force bleed through the disconnect while assistant operates pedal and checks reservoir. Typically first three bleeds have a burst of air, and after that, it's fluid.

Then I connect the line and force bleed through the speed bleeder like I'm doing brakes.

maroonls1z

The best hydralic setup on these cars by far is a tick master with a remote bleeder. The tick master has its own resivoir so it doesnt run dry and with the adjustable pedal you can set it how you want. The pressure bleeder makes its take litterally 30 secondse to bleed the slave and master