Badhawk

^^^That statement is hilarious,sad, and true.^^^
Yes Congats to the OP!

allbaugh_04

iTrader: (6)

The air force doesn't see much combat unless your afsc actually might deal with it and that's when you will be given more training if you need it to do your job. Makes sense huh. Most air force jobs aren't gonna see combat so why would they need more rifle training.

Yes a lot of people are scared to shoot a weapon that can kill in 1-3 shots. Yes a lot of those people have never used a weapon before and realize what it can actually do when they get it put in their hands. No it's not easy for every one. Personally I didn't shoot a gun till i got to basic and my score shows i did perfectly fine.

Most are unfamiliar with guns, why wouldn't they be afraid, it's human nature, idk even know why we are arguing about this.

You don't need to shoot a gun well to do your job. Get with the times

the_merv

iTrader: (88)

^^We aren't argueing about this.. you seem a little butt-sore about this though..

Here's something for you..

I was in Kir Kuk, Iraq, summer of '04 when the **** wasn't exactly peaceful.

One night the little bastards got ballzy, blew down 2 of the Guard Towers on the end of the Flightline with RPG's, threw some Carpets over the C-wire and jumped it. We heard the explosions and a **** load of machine gun fire and heard people calling for help on the Radio. A couple of up got up on the Roof of the Fire Station with Rifles and Ammo, coming down the Air Field were about 40 little ******* just bookin and talking shots at anything. They got to within 400yrds of the Station, we were ready to open up with our M16's, and that is when the QRF showed up and mowed them down with the .50 Cals.

So you can take all that Office **** and throw it out the window, cause when the Base is being over run, you better know how to use the Rifle you have incase you actually have to use it.

That is why I think the people that don't know how to use it and are afraid of it are pathetic, and it's not their fault, it's the Training Policy on it.

Just my opinion though, I think people should know how to defend themselves rather than how to Field-strip and load a Printer. Yea, most jobs dont require you to shoot a Weapon, but the last time I checked this was the Military, and we are known to **** people up with Guns, been doing it for a couple hundred years now..

If **** gets down to it and someone pussies out, I'll use their ammo for them properly..lol

bene

iTrader: (16)

Part of your job is to defend AF assets when being attacked. You certainly need to do well with shooting to defend it. Get with your Airman's Manual, read it and learn it.

dimedsbc

iTrader: (2)

S.F. deploys almost every six months as my base.... that seems to be a lot of down range time to me....

HooliganZ

iTrader: (4)

I spent 5 years as an instructor at Sheppard, and all of those rules still exist. The problem is alot of the NCOs don't want to take the time to correct an Airman when they see them doing something wrong. They still have phases, and they aren't supposed to even carry a cell phone in uniform, let alone talk on it in uniform. If I saw an infraction of any kind, I wouldn't hesitate to stop my vehicle, get out, and educate the Airman on the standard and what they were doing wrong. If more NCOs would do the same, you wouldn't see half the crap you see these days. As an Airforce, we have collectively become more lenient on certain things.

And to the OP...congrats on graduating, pay attention to what your instructors have to say, and keep your nose clean at Sheppard. I will be at Sheppard next week for a month on midtour from Korea, keep an eye out for the car in my avatar.

usaf_hess

iTrader: (8)

When you see that car put your phone away LOL


Had to say that bud. That crap pisses me off and i am just an A1C, the rules are there and just cause someone might have more rank or not does not mean they are allowed to bend them.

allbaugh_04

iTrader: (6)

That book is the biggest waste of tax payers money. No I'm not butt hurt but i am happy to know you guys aren't making big decision to decide where the air force actually needs training.

So who was on the .50 cal? I'm gonna guess some army dudes were on that .50 cal. I could be wrong, but if i am right, you just helped prove my point.

BigT2002

iTrader: (2)

So true its not even funny. When I got to Balad to get my surgery, I had to show a handful of my own branch how to probably clear the weapon at a firing barrel. Most of which didn't even know how to hold the weapon at port arms or that they needed to PULL the charging handle let alone hold the paddle button (what I call it ) to pull the entire bolt carrier back.

Actually there is a lot of good information in that which you should probably look at. Do you know everything about CBRNE? Enough to know when you've been hit by a chemical or blister agent? How about the amount of time between injections? Or how to properly field strip a M9? What about what to do if you see a UXO? Sorry, not buying into what your saying. First half may be outdated as all hell......but the middle to end is pretty crucial

BigT2002

iTrader: (2)

Werd. They had all the water ones closed in January because it was too cold if someone fell into it. It was 78 degrees out when it happened. Heaven forbid they'd let em get out and go dry off or anything. And ya the marksmanship was a joke. 5 hours of briefing on how to use a M16, in which 3/4 of the class screwed up, and then 30 minutes on the range shooting a paper target without the cadre ever showing you how to properly sight the weapon in case you ever were in a war and picked up another persons weapon. For that I am thankful I was with Marines to show me how to do it when I asked them to really show me when I deployed.

Difference in what the USAF taught me: I shot 34/50 on the range
After the USMC taught me: I shot 48/50 on the range.

Amazing what can happen if you are taught the right way to do things.

Please tell me you are not calling out a TACP on shooting?
And obviously you have never hinted at the black humor we have with this considering most of it is just sibling rivalry with one another. Obviously another person who has never deployed into joint forces before?? Its called thick skin and taking it as much as you can dish it.

J2Pharren1

iTrader: (1)

Oh so you "get" marksmanship? So how do you do off handed? How about with nods on? Can you sight in an aimpoint or a peq-4? Have you shot at anything other than a paper target 25m away? You ever tried to hit a moving target? Have you ever even held a military M9? You ever shot in full kit? How about in the prone with an 85lb ruck on your back? Does it really sound like you have very good small arms training now?

No, I'm sorry, but you do not "get" marksmanship, and I'm not claiming that I do, but I'm TACP and have to go the Army to learn anything, BigT is CCT and has to go to the Marine Corps. Guess what, those are the 2 most combat oriented afsc's in the air force and I don't know about his school, but the TACP schoolhouse has NO small arms training. We go through CQC, platoon size patrols and smaller, convoy, all that ****, but no range time whatsoever. I was a TACP for 10 months before I ever got any range time, and it was the ******* CATMS class the cops go through.

Everyone in the military should be able to operate the weapons we use. M16, M4, M9, 249, 240, and the vehicle mounted .50. I mean, thats what our airmans creed says right? Warrior Airman? Nations sword a shield? How many ************* can't even take the hand grips off a ******* m16.

EDIT: I got a little heated and started ranting, please nobody take anything personal. I'm just rather disappointed to be honest.

BigT2002

iTrader: (2)

Preciate the compliment Perran, wish I had a scarlet; however, all 3 of share the same Career Field though in Command & Control . I do play with JSOC quite a bit, hence why I have a GB that is sitting literally 10ft away from me down here in Honduras while we do counter drug operations out of this paradise.

Keep in mind the kid probably doesn't even know what an Aimpoint is or how to breach a building while in a firing squad. He is going by what the Air Force says is the "standard" for shooting. Know how to take it apart, shoot in 5 positions at a piece of paper and call it a day. Shoot a 24 with a M16, you are good for war! There is a reason we only shoot just prior to PCS or deployments now, our branch doesn't care about shooting and its why this is a corporate job now

the_merv

iTrader: (88)

What point are you trying to prove, that you can legitametly classify yourself in the group of pussies that can slime their way through the Military without getting your hands dirty..?
Let me ask you something, what do you do for a Job?

It was Army, and Air Force..
You even know what a QRF is?

You have no valid point cause you can't open up your mind and you are stuck with tunnel vision on one idea..


This is the list of Weapons I personally know how to use and function if need be..

USAF Qualified: M-16A2
Others with knowledgeable experience..
M4
M9
M1911A1
M14
M203
M40A1 (Own one..)
Barrett M82A1
M2 Browning(.50 Cal)
Benelli M1, M1014(M4)
Rem 870
Mossberg M590A1
M60
M240B
M249 SAW
MP5
L1A1
G36
AK-47
RPK
Drunganov SVD

And I'm sure there is a couple of others..


You are doing a really good job of filling the slot for that "Some"..the rest of us are pretty much on the same level and know what the hell goes on, how bout you get with the program..

Yes some Jobs may not ever be exposed to Combat, but from what we can tall so far you have never been in any **** to where they may look directly at you and tell you to grab your Rifle and your Armor, you have to go with a Team to help cause they need someone that has a Trigger finger and can function a weapon..some of us have been in that situation, and gone out of the wire to help cause someone got into some **** and needed to be pulled out.

allbaugh_04

iTrader: (6)

I don't take anything personal on here or too serious, i am just expressing my opinion, so no one get sore feelings for it. I actually agree with some of the things you guys say and say things just to get you going and see how you really feel...sorry.

To sum up what i was saying: some people need the training and some simply don't and when it comes down to it. You'll get the training you need in the end.

I might not know everything about every gun or know every little thing about lots of different guns, i'm not into that. However, some of you do got me all wrong thinking i am a desk jockey. I've shot a lot of different weapons cuz i know people that let me shoot theirs. I'm not the best but when it comes down to it, i can do anything with the proper training like most of you can i am sure. Some guns I don't even know what they were cuz i've used quite a few, but i've used the M16, AK-47, 10 gauge, 12 gauge, m9s, and lots of other pistols and rifles.

We don't really need to be arguing this much as fun as it is.

BTW my job entails a lot getting dirty. I've worked with every career field on the jet. I've worked next to crewchiefs, electricians, hydro, jets, flyers, you name it, i've had a hand in it. I'm not qualified on everything, but if someone needs help i am there. And when it comes down to it that's all that matters. Same thing will apply if I am deployed. I'm avionics BTW.

HooliganZ

iTrader: (4)

I feel sorry for the OP, this thread got WAY off track! It was supposed to be about him graduating BMT.

patchz28

realmendrivev8s

iTrader: (23)

Congrats OP. In a few months I hope to be graduating from BMT too

the_merv

iTrader: (88)

^^What Job you going in for?

usaf_hess

iTrader: (8)

I agree with hooligan this wasnt started to be a pissing match betwewen other members of this forum or services.

realmendrivev8s

iTrader: (23)

im going for EOD, whether or not I make it through tech school is a whole other story.