Thank You Phil Thomas
05-15-2010, 03:03 PM
#41
05-15-2010, 04:18 PM
#43
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I hope your not trying to say I've avoided PMs because I have replied to everyone that was sent, I'm not avoiding anyone.
Here is the bottom line, I sold a crank that was checked by a machine shop and was in good condition OVER 2 years ago. It is the engine builders responsibility to check EACH and EVERY part and ensure that it meets their expectations because at the end of the day THEIR name is on it.
When we got our new crank from Bryant, we spent over $3,000 on the crankshaft alone, BEFORE it went into the motor, it was magnafluxed, checked for runout, journals were checked for size and roundness, and the balance was checked. This is a standard process for any quality engine builder.
If the Machine shop neglected to check the crank, did they check the balance? Did they check the piston to bore clearance, did they check the bearing clearance? Did they check the rods for roundness? Or did they just slap the phucker together? Which brings up my 2nd question...
If the crank was BENT it would have shown when they balanced it because bent cranks balance funny or when it was installed in the block. If the crank was BENT it would not have balanced correctly and would have been tough to rotate once the main caps were installed? You just dont miss a bent crank.
If the question had been raised back in 2008 when he got the crank before it was installed when the engine buider was doing the preliminary setup, I would have had zero issue working with him. 2 years later with plenty of question of the engine builders competence, my hands are washed of this situtation.
There is no reason to debate this situtation any more, there is absolutely zero chance I am doing any type of a refund.
Here is the bottom line, I sold a crank that was checked by a machine shop and was in good condition OVER 2 years ago. It is the engine builders responsibility to check EACH and EVERY part and ensure that it meets their expectations because at the end of the day THEIR name is on it.
When we got our new crank from Bryant, we spent over $3,000 on the crankshaft alone, BEFORE it went into the motor, it was magnafluxed, checked for runout, journals were checked for size and roundness, and the balance was checked. This is a standard process for any quality engine builder.
If the Machine shop neglected to check the crank, did they check the balance? Did they check the piston to bore clearance, did they check the bearing clearance? Did they check the rods for roundness? Or did they just slap the phucker together? Which brings up my 2nd question...
If the crank was BENT it would have shown when they balanced it because bent cranks balance funny or when it was installed in the block. If the crank was BENT it would not have balanced correctly and would have been tough to rotate once the main caps were installed? You just dont miss a bent crank.
If the question had been raised back in 2008 when he got the crank before it was installed when the engine buider was doing the preliminary setup, I would have had zero issue working with him. 2 years later with plenty of question of the engine builders competence, my hands are washed of this situtation.
There is no reason to debate this situtation any more, there is absolutely zero chance I am doing any type of a refund.
05-15-2010, 05:24 PM
#44
If Eastside is such a competent engine builder how did they miss a bad crank? A bad crank would have showed up on...
First motor build
1) Inital check
2) Inital balance
3) magnaflux test
4) When the crank was installed and main caps were torqued
When the motor was torn down the 1st time, everything should have been phucking checked again with a microscope. There are more than a handful of checks that should and were probably done to see if it was a bad crank.
Any engine builder that looks at the eagle crank will tell you they are not designed for high horsepower applications, the design of the crank and counterweights make them prone to flex. Simple study of the design of the crank would note that they are prone to crank flex in high hp setups. Have you ever thought that MAYBE your making more power than the crank can handle reliabily??
I started using virginia speed at the very end of 2008 to the beginning of 2009. The motor builder that I used locally just didnt have the experience with the turbo setups.
First motor build
1) Inital check
2) Inital balance
3) magnaflux test
4) When the crank was installed and main caps were torqued
When the motor was torn down the 1st time, everything should have been phucking checked again with a microscope. There are more than a handful of checks that should and were probably done to see if it was a bad crank.
Any engine builder that looks at the eagle crank will tell you they are not designed for high horsepower applications, the design of the crank and counterweights make them prone to flex. Simple study of the design of the crank would note that they are prone to crank flex in high hp setups. Have you ever thought that MAYBE your making more power than the crank can handle reliabily??
I started using virginia speed at the very end of 2008 to the beginning of 2009. The motor builder that I used locally just didnt have the experience with the turbo setups.
FWIW, I know of a few 440 LSX's that are in the 8's (300 shot and more) with eagle cranks.
05-15-2010, 06:13 PM
#48
This is my last post in this thread....
If I were going to build a 440" LSx, 14.5:1 TEA 6 bolt headed 2 kit nitrous motor, it wouldn't be with a phucking eagle crank. I'd use a Callies Magnum at a bare minumum. Eagle cranks NEW are cheap for a reason.
05-16-2010, 01:22 PM
#50
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Since my name was brought up-i guess i'm going to have to respond
please inform me were i said that eagle cranks have a problem of cracking.I did say they will flex in high hp applications.
I will add this as well-a competent engine builder will check a used crank thoroughly-
we check every used crank before we use it
magnaflux
check for straightness
roundness of the journals
journal taper
if this was done before engine assembly-then it happened after the crank was installed in the engine-
if it was not checked-change engine builders
please inform me were i said that eagle cranks have a problem of cracking.I did say they will flex in high hp applications.
I will add this as well-a competent engine builder will check a used crank thoroughly-
we check every used crank before we use it
magnaflux
check for straightness
roundness of the journals
journal taper
if this was done before engine assembly-then it happened after the crank was installed in the engine-
if it was not checked-change engine builders
05-16-2010, 01:29 PM
#51
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So what you're saying is Eastside Performance is not competent of building a motor?I'm sure all of the above were checked. Phil, I had to send you multiple private messages and the first one you responded to I had to add delivery confirmation to even get a response. So you did ignore atleast two of my messages. As I thought this is going no where. Mods can lock the thread. Also, I would again like to thank you Phil for making me spend a shitload of money to fix something that stemmed from a malfunctioning part in which you sold me. I find it a little ironic that when I private messaged Virgina Speed about the Eagle cranks they new all about them "flexing and cracking in high horsepower applications"(Shawn@VA Speed). Correct me if i'm wrong but they do all of your engine building? Do you see where i'm getting at? As I ask the mods to lock this thread I ask one more question to you Phil and the pro-Phil crowd: if the tables were turned and I sold you to a malfunctioning part that in return cost you THOUSANDS of dollars you would not ask me for a refund?
if all of that was checked before the crank installed-that would mean the crank was straight and free of cracks before installation-that could only mean the damage was done after installation.
05-16-2010, 03:56 PM
#52
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05-16-2010, 06:09 PM
#53
I'm not saying that it's right or anything but I would think that scenario could play out-not like he bought a crank from some stranger, if Phil and I'm talking Phil here-told Charles or even implied that the crank was good to go-and if Phil is selling it that's EXACTLY what I would think-that's it's good to go-I could see this happening. I really could.
Just a sequence of unfortunate events happened here and Charles got the short end here.
If you're a long time member here, well known builder/racer etc. I think you have to be RESPONSIBLE to a certain extent when giving advice and ESPECIALLY when selling parts.
People identify YOU with the PART and there's a comfort level that comes from buying from someone well known on this forum or anywhere else whre you kinda "know" somebody.
"hey where'd you get this crank?"
"I bought from Phil in Tech-it's good to go-no worries, got a great deal!"
Just like that-$10k later......................
05-16-2010, 06:37 PM
#54
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just so we are clear what was said in my pm
I do not appreciate being misquoted!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSPerformance
Have you ever seen any problems with an eagle crank shaft that resulted in eating up bearings. also what is the rpm limit on a stock style ls1 oil system
Shawn @ VA Speed
higher hp,higher rpm engines will flex the eagle cranks tearing up the main bearings.We have used melling hv oil pumps with moroso pans up to 8400rpm
I do not appreciate being misquoted!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSPerformance
Have you ever seen any problems with an eagle crank shaft that resulted in eating up bearings. also what is the rpm limit on a stock style ls1 oil system
Shawn @ VA Speed
higher hp,higher rpm engines will flex the eagle cranks tearing up the main bearings.We have used melling hv oil pumps with moroso pans up to 8400rpm
Last edited by Shawn @ VA Speed; 05-16-2010 at 06:47 PM.
05-16-2010, 06:46 PM
#55
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Is it reasonable that Charles told Eastside that the crank was checked and since Phil would seem to be a reputable stand up guy to this point that they would skip that crank check?
I'm not saying that it's right or anything but I would think that scenario could play out-not like he bought a crank from some stranger, if Phil and I'm talking Phil here-told Charles or even implied that the crank was good to go-and if Phil is selling it that's EXACTLY what I would think-that's it's good to go-I could see this happening. I really could.
Just a sequence of unfortunate events happened here and Charles got the short end here.
If you're a long time member here, well known builder/racer etc. I think you have to be RESPONSIBLE to a certain extent when giving advice and ESPECIALLY when selling parts.
People identify YOU with the PART and there's a comfort level that comes from buying from someone well known on this forum or anywhere else whre you kinda "know" somebody.
"hey where'd you get this crank?"
"I bought from Phil in Tech-it's good to go-no worries, got a great deal!"
Just like that-$10k later......................
I'm not saying that it's right or anything but I would think that scenario could play out-not like he bought a crank from some stranger, if Phil and I'm talking Phil here-told Charles or even implied that the crank was good to go-and if Phil is selling it that's EXACTLY what I would think-that's it's good to go-I could see this happening. I really could.
Just a sequence of unfortunate events happened here and Charles got the short end here.
If you're a long time member here, well known builder/racer etc. I think you have to be RESPONSIBLE to a certain extent when giving advice and ESPECIALLY when selling parts.
People identify YOU with the PART and there's a comfort level that comes from buying from someone well known on this forum or anywhere else whre you kinda "know" somebody.
"hey where'd you get this crank?"
"I bought from Phil in Tech-it's good to go-no worries, got a great deal!"
Just like that-$10k later......................
I don't care if Warren Johnson said it was good and the Pope swore to it,i would still check it.Until i see it for myself it's not a fact.
I don't now how other places do it but i don't assume much-
I check every new crank for journal roundness and taper-also check them for straightness.
I check every new connecting rods for both ends being rounds and to proper side
I check every piston for the correct diameter and the pin bores are round and correct diameter
to do ANYTHING less is just foolish.
05-16-2010, 07:00 PM
#56
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The crank was bad from day 1. It took me a year of collecting parts for this build. my pockets are not as deep as phill or virgina speed. i guess it is what it is .... very hard lesson to learn phill can keep his money....You showed your true colors....
Last edited by SSPerformance; 05-16-2010 at 07:42 PM.
05-16-2010, 07:51 PM
#57
no it is not reasonable to ever skip checking a used part because so and so said it was good.
I don't care if Warren Johnson said it was good and the Pope swore to it,i would still check it.Until i see it for myself it's not a fact.
I don't now how other places do it but i don't assume much-
I check every new crank for journal roundness and taper-also check them for straightness.
I check every new connecting rods for both ends being rounds and to proper side
I check every piston for the correct diameter and the pin bores are round and correct diameter
to do ANYTHING less is just foolish.
I don't care if Warren Johnson said it was good and the Pope swore to it,i would still check it.Until i see it for myself it's not a fact.
I don't now how other places do it but i don't assume much-
I check every new crank for journal roundness and taper-also check them for straightness.
I check every new connecting rods for both ends being rounds and to proper side
I check every piston for the correct diameter and the pin bores are round and correct diameter
to do ANYTHING less is just foolish.
After reading this thread I defiantely agree that it is foolish to skip any check that needs to be done in a motor build.
I don't think that anyone here disagrees that the crank SHOULD have been checked by the builder but I think most of will agree that the crank caused all the issues here.
05-16-2010, 08:00 PM
#58
[QUOTE=Shawn @ VA Speed;13339142
Shawn @ VA Speed
higher hp,higher rpm engines will flex the eagle cranks tearing up the main bearings.We have used melling hv oil pumps with moroso pans up to 8400rpm[/QUOTE]
What rpm was Phil spinning that Eagle crank up to?
That's what I'd really like to know here.
Shawn @ VA Speed
higher hp,higher rpm engines will flex the eagle cranks tearing up the main bearings.We have used melling hv oil pumps with moroso pans up to 8400rpm[/QUOTE]
What rpm was Phil spinning that Eagle crank up to?
That's what I'd really like to know here.
