WS6nJAX

iTrader: (207)

Dr. Teeth is exactly right. earlier in this thread oufan posted this...
now, lets say that oufan is running behind on his yards or gets really busy and has to hire another company/contractor to pick up his extra work, and the other guy who is spraying kills someones foilage because he used a general herbicide....who would be responsible??? i would think that oufan would be as he is the person who is responsible for the person he contracted. oufan would have to answer to the customer first and then take up any and all problems with the orther party. there is really nothing different in the shipping issue here. oufan sold the part, he picked ups as the contracted shipper and any and all problems that arise from this choice is between the seller (oufan) and the shipper (ups). if the buyer is not happy about some scratches (no matter how small or insignificant) that occured during shipping, he should have the right to a refund and the seller take the damage up with the shipper HE picked.

Cliff

iTrader: (19)

You are really making a lot of assumptions in your statements. Wish the world worked this way, but it doesn't. OUfan is not a business when selling the turbo. He is an individual and as so, he made NO GUARANTEES. That's why he purchased insurance. Which OUfan paid out of pocket, so this type of thing would be covered!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WS6nJAX

iTrader: (207)

i am not assuming anything. where did he tell the buyer he made no guarantees or that the item was sold as is??? HE purchased the insurance and HE would be the ONLY person who would be paid on the claim. weather you like it or not, that is the way that the ups world works. oufan will/would be the claimant as he is the shipper/person who insured. if ups deems that the part was package incorrectly then that will/would be something thats between oufan and the ups store (which is not a part of ups and is a franchised business) as that is the person HE PICKED TO DO THE SHIPPING.

Havok2

iTrader: (118)

yes, i agree with you. i posted tht about 9092323 posts back LOL

oh well. wahtever works as long as the issue is resolved.

WS6nJAX

iTrader: (207)

thanks Havok2. i have been working on and off for ups since 1987 and i am pretty sure how this all works. i just cant get some of these guys to believe me.

Havok2

iTrader: (118)

yup, i see you said you work for them, so you got some insighT, hard to see why they dont believe you.
anyways get this resolved folks. keep it civil.

99DWPTA

iTrader: (10)

I Worked For Ups A Year Ago... Fyi Your Package Is Not Handled With Care.the Bigger The Item The More It Gets Abused.instead Of Lifting Heavy Items Off Conveyor Belt They Were Pushed Off It 3-4 Feet Down. Package Things With Intension Of Them Getting Thrown Around When Shipping Ups. Just To Help People Out In The Future!!

SMOKKINU

iTrader: (4)

which is why it is on HIM (The Buyer) to PROVE that it is damaged, so pay to have it checked out, if its fine, he eats the cost, if its broken inside, he send the reciept to the SELLER and the SELLER goes after UPS to have the turbo repaired, it makes perfect sense.


Oh and BTW, your opinion on shipping makes no sense whatsoever. like someone else stated in here...if you buy a car, and it gets delivered, and the truck driving company that delivers it scratches it or scuffs it....is the DEALER responsible then for the damages? no...the truck company pays to have them repaired, and the dealer fixes them.


Im pretty sure the SELLER in this case isnt a certified turbo fixer upper guy, so the BUYER must pay to take it somewhere to GET it checked out and repaired if need be...then send the bill to the SELLER so UPS can pay for the damages they inflicted upon shipping...same way the truck company would pay for the damages to the good while in their posession.


All freight/shipping companys assume responsibility for all packages under their posession, it is no longer the shippers responsibility. you paid for insurance for a reason....

SMOKKINU

iTrader: (4)

you are not contracting UPS, you are paying for a service. Nowhere in UPS's paperwork does it say you are hiring them as a subcontractor, you are paying for a service they provide.... just like when you get your oil changed, or whatever.


as for who's responsibility it is...again. the seller made no claims of garuntee, so theirfore none exists. he does not have to state in his post that their are no refunds if their are damages...there was nothing implied either way, it will be looked at as a cash for item trade between two people, and a judge will say case closed.


for the millionth time, phildo needs to take the turbo, pay to get it checked out...if its broken, send the seller the bill, and he can give it to UPS for them to pay....UPS may want to look at the turbo themselves, whatever. let them.

if it checks out ok, phildo pays the cost of getting it checked out, that is fair enough, he had the nerve to make the accusation, he can eat his words when it checks out ok aswell.


this is almost like me buying a brand new car, it has a few scratches from shipping on the door, and i demand a brand new car cause obviously the motor might be hurt. i dont want it to be checked out, i just want a brand new car, or my money back.

oufan2929

Actually, I wouldn't have contracted out that work to someone who didn't have insurance. I would have been accountable, but the guy I contracted it out to would have insurance that'd pay for it. Thanks. You can't make an analogy and leave one of the biggest parts (insurance) out of the equation.

WS6nJAX

iTrader: (207)

same here. you are accountable and ups has a obligation to you as the insured/claiment not the buyer.
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/res...ims/index.html

smokkinu
when you choose to ship thru ups you do enter into an agreement that they (ups) will get your shipment to its destination in a timely agreed upon manor and free from damage that is caused due to shipping. you (the shipper) also agree to meet certain rules and conditions prior to shipping (no illegal products, no non-marked haz-mats, packaged properly and so on). i'm not sure how they do things where you are from, but here in florida an agreement (be it verbal or written) is looked at the same as a contract.

ups is nothing like getting your oil changed. by your own admission, ups provides a service not a product. with a oil change there is oil, filters and any other PRODUCT you may choose purchase.

as far as the sellers responsibility. from what i have read the part was presented as "new". if the seller had no intentions of the item being sold as such, he should have made it clear to the buyer that it was sold/shipped "as is" w/no guarnatee. i have NEVER purchased anything off this board that when it arrived was damaged or something other than what i expected and the seller not make it right. you can see from the pics of the box that the turbo was not packeged well. if its the buyers choice to have concerns as to the condition of the part as a result of the poor packaging then so be it.

the example of the car having a scratch and wanting a new car is a little overboard. how about you buy a new motor from sdpc and it obvious the pallet/crate was seriously mishandled. the motor has several spots where there are marks that were not there upon shipping. scroggin tells you to go have it checked out with your own money. would you take the money out of your own pocket or ask them to please just send you your money back while they and the shipping company decide who was at fault.

trust me. if this does end up going the route of the legal system, its a slam dunker for phildo. he had NO SAY SO as to who did the packing, who was chosen as the shipper or as to the manor in which it was shipped. all the guy wanted was what he thought he was getting. a part that was packaged well and was free from any possible (as percived in the buyers eyes) damage. not to have to spend more of his hard earned money having a part checked out.

SMOKKINU

iTrader: (4)

without going into this one more time, i will say this... there are scratches on the turbo. if there are scratches on a motor, i wouldnt think anything of it. if the crate looked like it was dropped from a copter, then i would be a bit skeptical. my car analogy is a good one, you just had no defense for it... it fits this case just fine.

there is no proof the turbo is hurt, it is up to phildo to findout if it is (At his expense) if it isnt, he pays for it, if it is, UPS pays for it...its black and white.

a turbo doesnt get internal damage from surface scratches...

Havok2

iTrader: (118)

no gurantee was implied? i would think on an item this amount ($1600) i think gurantee/warranty the item works and arrives in satisfactory condition is IMPLIED. its not a 200 dollar set of rusty headers. its a BRAND new NEVER installed turbo that costs $1600 dollars....so, i think that includes a warranty the item arrives and performs like it was new (since it is...)

Havok2

iTrader: (118)

common courtesy. put yourself in the other shoes, see around the blinders....

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Bottom line the guy who packaged it up and got lazy, or did not know how to package that up, or the seller asked for the cheap approach. Turbos are heavy, and most folks at UPS will just drag the box around, nobody is going to carry it like it's filled with Swarovski crystal. Do the right thing and pay for any repairs. I have bought a $2000 turbo before and I'd be acting just like Phildo.

WS6nJAX

iTrader: (207)

guess thats your opinion as to weather my example was a good one or not. guess you know what they say about opinions....... bet if it was up to you no seller on here should be held accountable for anything that happens.

if it was sold as new it should be ok to expect it to arrive that way.

you gonna tell PSJ that he dosent know what he is talking about too?

OKcruising

Guess I need to start suing materials companies for scratched brand new metal bar stock.

Phildo, acknowledge the facts, pay for inspection. If the function of the turbo is impaired, go to OUfan. He in turn will then deal with the packaging. There are so many legal remedies its funny. I see a lot of talk, and zero movement on your part phildo. Your not going to get someone to teardown and inspect for something that is overwhelmingly the case of being surface blemishes. If OUfan does elect, I highly recommend a contract that says you will reimburse him for the inspection.

This is going to have to be settled offline for many reasons.

Basically in a nut shell. Hash out that whoever was wrong reimburse the inspection paying party. If there is functionality impairment, then an invoice should be sent to OUfan, who in turn would have the UPS insurance reimburse him(OUfan).

If you think a surface scratched turbo is bad and a big hubbub, you shouldn't try to get a knockout wooden billiards table, where you can't machine flaws. We would tell the shop, which in turn got the insurance to reimburse the costs of a new leg being matched to the table. However, trying to weasel them for scratches and unfinished work underneath the slab would immediately fall on deaf ears.

How is this of use to you? It tells you how OUfan would act as the middleman to the shipping insurance. It also tells that if the function was impaired(external and visible scratches on a leg are a big no no on a pool table) then it is absolutely within your realm to demand repair. Hence, talk to him, arrange the initial inspection, and set up an option tree that binds the party.

Sheesh, this could have been over quite a while ago.

Ill add that phildo, you shouldn't pay for the inspection upfront, get the arrangement squared away. You can get this knocked out and flying fast again.

WS6nJAX

iTrader: (207)

exactly what have i assumed? oufan has yet to say that there was no guarantee as to the condition in which the part would arrive. the buyer thought he was getting new part, not almost new, kinda new or maybe new. also, i have never said that the part had a problem. i said that if the buyer thought there might be a problem or is unhappy as to the condition in which the part arrived he shouldnt have to pay for any inspection out of his own pocket. you can look at the pics posted and see that the shipping/packing was sub-par at the very least.

and how in the hell do you figure that i assumed that the seller used the wrong company? i simply said that it is not the buyers problem that this happened. fact is that any restitution made between the seller/shipper and the shipping company will not include the buyer. ups will only deal with the shipper.

and it is my opinion that he refund the $$ until the seller and the shipping company work this out.

Jeremiah

iTrader: (5)

If Phildo wanted the turbo crated rather than boxed he should have negotiated that into the deal. There is no visible damage to the turbo or the box that the pics show and this entire ordeal is based on $.40 worth of black paint.

If I were the seller I would send Phildo $5.00 and a *****. If he still wasnt happy with the $5.00 to buy a can of black spray paint he could go screw himself.

Timbo1969

You guys make a freaking lot of invalid points at this point, as there is only perceived damage to the freaking turbo. If Phildo doubts it's in working order HE should get it checked. There are no guaranty's when buying from an individual online.. Anyone remember a phrase that is always taught to people when buying used merchandise? Caveat Emptor Let the Buyer beware.. Not let the freaking seller pay for any damage if it's broken.. If you want a guaranty then you negotiate such with the seller prior to the sale, once item is received it's toooo late.. Geez what a bunch of knuckleheads