Performance tuning - Expected results and is it necessary in my case?
10-26-2009, 08:53 PM
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Performance tuning - Expected results and is it necessary in my case? Ok, the basics...
I have a 2000 WS6 with 68,000 miles. I've owned the car for two years (from 55k to present) and assume there are no engine mods internally.
This week I am having the stock headers and exhaust remvoed and will be putting on Hooker longtube headers (ceramic), with a Pacesetter Y-pipe and Borla catback exhaust.
I already have put the SLP air lid on to replace the stock WS6 lid.
That's it, no other mods as of yet. Down the road I would like to be above the 400 HP mark, but am not looking to go to the track as I simply prefer street performance over straight out 1/4 mile speeds.
My question, once I have the headers and exhaust on, do I need to get a performance tune? If so, outside of the expected gains in HP from the headers/exhaust themselves, what can you expect from a performance tuning? And before it is suggested, I rather not do any tweaking of the systems myself using any hand held computer since I don't understand all the information needed and may cause problems doing something wrong!
If gains can be expected, and doing the performance tuning is a great option (or requirement), where can I get good work done at in the Orlando Florida area if anyone happens to be local? Mike Norris comes highly recommended but apparently he is leaving within a month or so...
I have a 2000 WS6 with 68,000 miles. I've owned the car for two years (from 55k to present) and assume there are no engine mods internally.
This week I am having the stock headers and exhaust remvoed and will be putting on Hooker longtube headers (ceramic), with a Pacesetter Y-pipe and Borla catback exhaust.
I already have put the SLP air lid on to replace the stock WS6 lid.
That's it, no other mods as of yet. Down the road I would like to be above the 400 HP mark, but am not looking to go to the track as I simply prefer street performance over straight out 1/4 mile speeds.
My question, once I have the headers and exhaust on, do I need to get a performance tune? If so, outside of the expected gains in HP from the headers/exhaust themselves, what can you expect from a performance tuning? And before it is suggested, I rather not do any tweaking of the systems myself using any hand held computer since I don't understand all the information needed and may cause problems doing something wrong!
If gains can be expected, and doing the performance tuning is a great option (or requirement), where can I get good work done at in the Orlando Florida area if anyone happens to be local? Mike Norris comes highly recommended but apparently he is leaving within a month or so...
10-26-2009, 10:37 PM
#2
It's not necessary, but it would be a really good idea. You'll get more power out of the mods, and you can tell the computer to ignore the rear O2's so you don't have to run O@ Sims.
From full exhaust and a tune, look for about 30hp/30lb-ft. Don't bother with a handheld tuner. From a solid dyno tune, you'll pick up power throughout, and the car will just kinda run better in general. Better throttle response, that kind of thing.
From full exhaust and a tune, look for about 30hp/30lb-ft. Don't bother with a handheld tuner. From a solid dyno tune, you'll pick up power throughout, and the car will just kinda run better in general. Better throttle response, that kind of thing.
10-26-2009, 10:50 PM
#3
yea to utilize the mods its worth the tune, not only will it improve power throughout it will make the engine overall more effeicient. better mpg, throttle response etc. headers will make a huge difference on your car and a full exhaust with a dyno tune i wouldnt be suprised with more then 30hp/30tq. for what you have spent on the headers and exhaust id say get a tune and until you do something big(heads/cam/tubo) you wont need another tune lik eif you put on a ported throttle body. I would also suggest investing 350 bucks into a ls6 intake which will give you some more power.
10-26-2009, 11:54 PM
#4
if you plan on more mods, I would hold off until then.
i ran fine with full intake, full exhaust, and ls6 heads for a while with no tune. only got a mail order tune from PCM4LESS over the summer to get rid of the all the SES lights (cant pass inspection with a SES light)
i ran fine with full intake, full exhaust, and ls6 heads for a while with no tune. only got a mail order tune from PCM4LESS over the summer to get rid of the all the SES lights (cant pass inspection with a SES light)
10-27-2009, 06:55 AM
#6
FYI
My car is a 2002.
Was stock w/ a M6 but then I put a SLP Flopac, Dynatech headers, w/ their CATS mated to a Crosa Exhaust. The MAF was descreened.
I still ended up showing Knock Retard (KR) My power with the Lid only was 324 rwhp, w/ the exhaust system it made 326 rwhp. The tune made it 340 (corrected) and 350 uncorrected. **All before numbers are corrected as well** All numbers also included a Moser 12 bolt, Tru Trac and a 3" steel DS.
A tune is definitly needed, even if it is to desensitize false knock.
My car is a 2002.
Was stock w/ a M6 but then I put a SLP Flopac, Dynatech headers, w/ their CATS mated to a Crosa Exhaust. The MAF was descreened.
I still ended up showing Knock Retard (KR) My power with the Lid only was 324 rwhp, w/ the exhaust system it made 326 rwhp. The tune made it 340 (corrected) and 350 uncorrected. **All before numbers are corrected as well** All numbers also included a Moser 12 bolt, Tru Trac and a 3" steel DS.
A tune is definitly needed, even if it is to desensitize false knock.
10-27-2009, 08:02 AM
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Thanks for the info guys, much appreciated. I am new to mods, so new water for me to put my feet in...
I was reading some other threads and saw some claims of mpg. How are you guys getting in the mid 20's, I get 16mpg and I have no mods (and that is mostly (80%) highway mileage). If I drive two hours straight on a highway and never change speed, I get it up to 20mpg with a strong tailwind assisting!!! As far as I can tell, nothing is wrong with my engine, it has good pickup, makes no unexpected sounds like misfiring or anything.
Perhaps some owner before me "tuned" it and it is out of whack? Or I just got a gas guzzling engine compared to most LS1's. that would be my luck, lol.
I was reading some other threads and saw some claims of mpg. How are you guys getting in the mid 20's, I get 16mpg and I have no mods (and that is mostly (80%) highway mileage). If I drive two hours straight on a highway and never change speed, I get it up to 20mpg with a strong tailwind assisting!!! As far as I can tell, nothing is wrong with my engine, it has good pickup, makes no unexpected sounds like misfiring or anything.
Perhaps some owner before me "tuned" it and it is out of whack? Or I just got a gas guzzling engine compared to most LS1's. that would be my luck, lol.
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10-27-2009, 09:09 AM
#8
^ Gas milage can be effected by things like
Driving technique
Transmission and Rear End gear ratios
Stall Converters (lock up)
Weight of car w/ driver
Engine mods
Parastic Drivetrain loss as well as Accesories
Tune**
In most cases a Tuner can mess with the VE (Volumetic Efficency) tables and create what is called a "Lean Tune" This allows for when your under part throttle to have a much higher Air to Fuel ratio, sometimes as high as 14-15 to 1, but when you go WOT (Wide Open Throttle) it drops down to the command A/F (ex. 12.8 to 1 for a N/A motor) This cars with just adj. to WOT to handle the new power often are fuel heavy from idle to redline. Under cruise conditions, you do not need all that fuel and are wasting it, if not washing down the cyl walls.
With my car I cruise 2.5k rpms @ about 70 mph (26" tall tire, 4.10 rear gear, and 0.50 6th gear ratio) I do not need to be pig rich.
Again, driving techinique will help MPG such as short shifting or skipping gears, never going past 3k rpms when starting from 1st and going to 6th, or for Auto guys, leaving under very little throttle to get the car to shift into OD as soon as possible.
In general a heavy ws.6 T/A vs a c5 Zo6 are 2 different beast when it comes to curb/race weight and the more you need to move, the more power it takes, and hence more fuel is used.
If you could dump 500 pounds out of the T/A I will bet any amount of money that you gain 2-3 mpg.
These are just some of the examples.
Driving technique
Transmission and Rear End gear ratios
Stall Converters (lock up)
Weight of car w/ driver
Engine mods
Parastic Drivetrain loss as well as Accesories
Tune**
In most cases a Tuner can mess with the VE (Volumetic Efficency) tables and create what is called a "Lean Tune" This allows for when your under part throttle to have a much higher Air to Fuel ratio, sometimes as high as 14-15 to 1, but when you go WOT (Wide Open Throttle) it drops down to the command A/F (ex. 12.8 to 1 for a N/A motor) This cars with just adj. to WOT to handle the new power often are fuel heavy from idle to redline. Under cruise conditions, you do not need all that fuel and are wasting it, if not washing down the cyl walls.
With my car I cruise 2.5k rpms @ about 70 mph (26" tall tire, 4.10 rear gear, and 0.50 6th gear ratio) I do not need to be pig rich.
Again, driving techinique will help MPG such as short shifting or skipping gears, never going past 3k rpms when starting from 1st and going to 6th, or for Auto guys, leaving under very little throttle to get the car to shift into OD as soon as possible.
In general a heavy ws.6 T/A vs a c5 Zo6 are 2 different beast when it comes to curb/race weight and the more you need to move, the more power it takes, and hence more fuel is used.
If you could dump 500 pounds out of the T/A I will bet any amount of money that you gain 2-3 mpg.
These are just some of the examples.
10-27-2009, 09:22 AM
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Thanks BSM. I guess I definately need to find a tuner in Orlando, not just for the Exhaust but for MPG as well. Sounds like I may be fuel heavy as you put it since I cruise around 1500-1700 RPM on the highway in 6th gear.
10-27-2009, 11:44 AM
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Yes, I was thinking about my next mods being the LS6 intake along with a 85 or 90mm throttle body... Probably a couple months down the road do to christmas and having to buy gifts for the real kids in my family (me not counting, lol)
FYI on mpg, I was just on the highway to go get lunch. At 75mph, in 6th gear, I cruise at 1700 rpm. At 65mph, in 4th gear, I cruise at 2700 RPM.
FYI on mpg, I was just on the highway to go get lunch. At 75mph, in 6th gear, I cruise at 1700 rpm. At 65mph, in 4th gear, I cruise at 2700 RPM.
10-27-2009, 12:51 PM
#13
Yes, I was thinking about my next mods being the LS6 intake along with a 85 or 90mm throttle body... Probably a couple months down the road do to christmas and having to buy gifts for the real kids in my family (me not counting, lol)
FYI on mpg, I was just on the highway to go get lunch. At 75mph, in 6th gear, I cruise at 1700 rpm. At 65mph, in 4th gear, I cruise at 2700 RPM.
FYI on mpg, I was just on the highway to go get lunch. At 75mph, in 6th gear, I cruise at 1700 rpm. At 65mph, in 4th gear, I cruise at 2700 RPM.
10-27-2009, 01:02 PM
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Forgive my ignorance, but who is Frost? 
Also, by mail order do you mean one of the plug-in modules or software I would need to hook a computer to the car to tweak?
Please provide me more deals on the thing from Frost so I can look into that. I cannot find a tune shop in Orlando at all so I may not even have the choice at this point.
Thanks
Also, by mail order do you mean one of the plug-in modules or software I would need to hook a computer to the car to tweak?
Please provide me more deals on the thing from Frost so I can look into that. I cannot find a tune shop in Orlando at all so I may not even have the choice at this point.
Thanks
10-27-2009, 01:33 PM
#15
Forgive my ignorance, but who is Frost?
Also, by mail order do you mean one of the plug-in modules or software I would need to hook a computer to the car to tweak?
Please provide me more deals on the thing from Frost so I can look into that. I cannot find a tune shop in Orlando at all so I may not even have the choice at this point.
Thanks
Also, by mail order do you mean one of the plug-in modules or software I would need to hook a computer to the car to tweak?
Please provide me more deals on the thing from Frost so I can look into that. I cannot find a tune shop in Orlando at all so I may not even have the choice at this point.
Thanks
Here is his site with more info.
tunedbyfrost.com
He can also remove your skip shift, delete your rear 02's, EGR, and Air.
10-27-2009, 01:52 PM
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Sounds like a really good deal. Problem of course is only having one car... my wife needs hers and goes opposite way to work. Perhaps I am due for a week long vacation.
