Does Ram Air actually up your HP?
12-28-2007, 06:53 PM
#61
ok...hmmmm...
....ok i got it!!... your mouth = throttle body, go get a high pressure hose and try drinking the water fast enough that it doesn't start spraying backwards(back pressure). kind of hard? that's because your body (ECU) is only programmed to drink (intake) so much fluid (air) at the givin speed at throttle...
....ok i got it!!... your mouth = throttle body, go get a high pressure hose and try drinking the water fast enough that it doesn't start spraying backwards(back pressure). kind of hard? that's because your body (ECU) is only programmed to drink (intake) so much fluid (air) at the givin speed at throttle...
EHHHHHHHHHHHHHH wrong, your ecm has a hotwire MAF and 02 sensors to tell it how much air is entering the engine and to give it enough fuel to match the incoming air, the ONLY limiting factors are the injectors and fuel pump capabilites for a given HP setup. Why do you think a stock car can run just fine in Denver and drive the same car to Miami? Way different hp in those altitudes and air ingestion capabilities.
In Denver with the ambient temp at 95* and Houston Tx at 35* do you REALLY think your car is taking in the same amount of air under WOT?
In Denver with the ambient temp at 95* and Houston Tx at 35* do you REALLY think your car is taking in the same amount of air under WOT?
Sure, the maf reads the incoming air if you have one, but and NA engine seeing more air will not magically grow more cubes and raise its amount of air it can use at any given rpm.The engine will ingest as much air as it can,Positive pressure in the intake tract makes it possible to get even MORE down its throat, the ecm is responsible for adding fuel....you are now touching in an engines VE capability.
AND AGAIN you describe EXACTLY what ram air is, keeping the plenum/filter box in positive pressure.
David
AND AGAIN you describe EXACTLY what ram air is, keeping the plenum/filter box in positive pressure.
David
Your engine is not an infinite capacity air pump - when NA it can and will only use a certain amount of air per rpm. Why do you think a bone stock LT1 engine will not gain hp using a 58mm AS&M monoblade over a 52mm LT1 style? An NA 350ci block can only use ~650cfms at 6.5k rpms - no matter how awesome your heads are or what intake you happen to use . Since the 52mm already flows that much, the bigger TB is USELESS. Unless it is FI setup that is truely compressing air, the rest is NOT used.
Are you guys "discussing" that a Ram Air compresses more air into the motor over a CAI or simply which one yields lower IAT's? I think the gains get miscontrued when lower IAT's are obtained (more hp) and people classify that as a "raming" effect.
In a N/A state a motor is only going to pull as much air as it needs. There is no raming force like a FI car. Ever try sticking your head outside the window at 100mph and try to take a deep breath through you mouth? Your lungs didn't explode did they? Why? My $.02 -Mark
-Mark
In a N/A state a motor is only going to pull as much air as it needs. There is no raming force like a FI car. Ever try sticking your head outside the window at 100mph and try to take a deep breath through you mouth? Your lungs didn't explode did they? Why? My $.02 -Mark
-Mark
(kidding :p)
12-28-2007, 06:58 PM
#62
Are you guys "discussing" that a Ram Air compresses more air into the motor over a CAI or simply which one yields lower IAT's? I think the gains get miscontrued when lower IAT's are obtained (more hp) and people classify that as a "raming" effect.
In a N/A state a motor is only going to pull as much air as it needs. There is no raming force like a FI car. Ever try sticking your head outside the window at 100mph and try to take a deep breath through you mouth? Your lungs didn't explode did they? Why? My $.02 -Mark
-Mark
In a N/A state a motor is only going to pull as much air as it needs. There is no raming force like a FI car. Ever try sticking your head outside the window at 100mph and try to take a deep breath through you mouth? Your lungs didn't explode did they? Why? My $.02 -Mark
-Mark
BUT, was it easier to breath vs having a sock in your mouth and a close pin on your nose? You had positive pressure at the entry to your mouth which took LESS EFFORT for you to get max lung filling.
Its called positive pressure, with positive pressure in the box it is easier for the air to enter the chamber.
Did ANYONE read the links I provided?
David
12-28-2007, 07:05 PM
#63
That actually got a chuckle out of me
Mine doesn't. Sure, the maf reads the incoming air if you have one, but and NA engine seeing more air will not magically grow more cubes and raise its amount of air it can use at any given rpm.
SUUUUURE DOES, WHEN THE DENSITY ALTITUDE IS LOW, YOUR ENGINE DOES NOT INGEST MORE LBS OF AIR? HOW DOES IT MAKE MORE POWER IN LOWER DA?????????? IT TAKES IN MORE AIR!!!!! THE AIR IS DENSER IT GETS MORE FUEL TO GO WITH IT TO MAKE MORE POWER!!
Again...I wouldn't say you are wrong per se, but just misunderstood Your engine is not an infinite capacity air pump - when NA it can and will only use a certain amount of air per rpm. Why do you think a bone stock LT1 engine will not gain hp using a 58mm AS&M monoblade over a 52mm LT1 style? An NA 350ci block can only use ~650cfms at 6.5k rpms - no matter how awesome your heads are or what intake you happen to use . Since the 52mm already flows that much, the bigger TB is USELESS.
OK IF THIS IS THE CASE, WHY DOES A CAI, AIRFOIL, HEADERS, CATBACK MAKE THE CAR FASTER? IT ENABLES IT TO PASS MORE AIR, IF YOU SPIN THE ENGINE MORE RPMS, DOES IT TAKE IN MORE AIR? YES...IT IS AN AIRPUMP AFTER ALL.
Unless it is FI setup that is truely compressing air, the rest is NOT used.
Exactly my point!. See, even the FORD guy gets it!!!
(kidding :p)
David
Mine doesn't.
Sure, the maf reads the incoming air if you have one, but and NA engine seeing more air will not magically grow more cubes and raise its amount of air it can use at any given rpm.SUUUUURE DOES, WHEN THE DENSITY ALTITUDE IS LOW, YOUR ENGINE DOES NOT INGEST MORE LBS OF AIR? HOW DOES IT MAKE MORE POWER IN LOWER DA?????????? IT TAKES IN MORE AIR!!!!! THE AIR IS DENSER IT GETS MORE FUEL TO GO WITH IT TO MAKE MORE POWER!!
Again...I wouldn't say you are wrong per se, but just misunderstood
Your engine is not an infinite capacity air pump - when NA it can and will only use a certain amount of air per rpm. Why do you think a bone stock LT1 engine will not gain hp using a 58mm AS&M monoblade over a 52mm LT1 style? An NA 350ci block can only use ~650cfms at 6.5k rpms - no matter how awesome your heads are or what intake you happen to use . Since the 52mm already flows that much, the bigger TB is USELESS. OK IF THIS IS THE CASE, WHY DOES A CAI, AIRFOIL, HEADERS, CATBACK MAKE THE CAR FASTER? IT ENABLES IT TO PASS MORE AIR, IF YOU SPIN THE ENGINE MORE RPMS, DOES IT TAKE IN MORE AIR? YES...IT IS AN AIRPUMP AFTER ALL.
Unless it is FI setup that is truely compressing air, the rest is NOT used.
Exactly my point!. See, even the FORD guy gets it!!!
(kidding :p)
David
12-28-2007, 07:17 PM
#67
That actually got a chuckle out of me
Mine doesn't. Sure, the maf reads the incoming air if you have one, but and NA engine seeing more air will not magically grow more cubes and raise its amount of air it can use at any given rpm.
SUUUUURE DOES, WHEN THE DENSITY ALTITUDE IS LOW, YOUR ENGINE DOES NOT INGEST MORE LBS OF AIR? HOW DOES IT MAKE MORE POWER IN LOWER DA?????????? IT TAKES IN MORE AIR!!!!! THE AIR IS DENSER IT GETS MORE FUEL TO GO WITH IT TO MAKE MORE POWER!!
Again...I wouldn't say you are wrong per se, but just misunderstood Your engine is not an infinite capacity air pump - when NA it can and will only use a certain amount of air per rpm. Why do you think a bone stock LT1 engine will not gain hp using a 58mm AS&M monoblade over a 52mm LT1 style? An NA 350ci block can only use ~650cfms at 6.5k rpms - no matter how awesome your heads are or what intake you happen to use . Since the 52mm already flows that much, the bigger TB is USELESS.
OK IF THIS IS THE CASE, WHY DOES A CAI, AIRFOIL, HEADERS, CATBACK MAKE THE CAR FASTER? IT ENABLES IT TO PASS MORE AIR, IF YOU SPIN THE ENGINE MORE RPMS, DOES IT TAKE IN MORE AIR? YES...IT IS AN AIRPUMP AFTER ALL.
Unless it is FI setup that is truely compressing air, the rest is NOT used.
Exactly my point!. See, even the FORD guy gets it!!!
(kidding :p)
David
Mine doesn't.
Sure, the maf reads the incoming air if you have one, but and NA engine seeing more air will not magically grow more cubes and raise its amount of air it can use at any given rpm.SUUUUURE DOES, WHEN THE DENSITY ALTITUDE IS LOW, YOUR ENGINE DOES NOT INGEST MORE LBS OF AIR? HOW DOES IT MAKE MORE POWER IN LOWER DA?????????? IT TAKES IN MORE AIR!!!!! THE AIR IS DENSER IT GETS MORE FUEL TO GO WITH IT TO MAKE MORE POWER!!
Again...I wouldn't say you are wrong per se, but just misunderstood
Your engine is not an infinite capacity air pump - when NA it can and will only use a certain amount of air per rpm. Why do you think a bone stock LT1 engine will not gain hp using a 58mm AS&M monoblade over a 52mm LT1 style? An NA 350ci block can only use ~650cfms at 6.5k rpms - no matter how awesome your heads are or what intake you happen to use . Since the 52mm already flows that much, the bigger TB is USELESS. OK IF THIS IS THE CASE, WHY DOES A CAI, AIRFOIL, HEADERS, CATBACK MAKE THE CAR FASTER? IT ENABLES IT TO PASS MORE AIR, IF YOU SPIN THE ENGINE MORE RPMS, DOES IT TAKE IN MORE AIR? YES...IT IS AN AIRPUMP AFTER ALL.
Unless it is FI setup that is truely compressing air, the rest is NOT used.
Exactly my point!. See, even the FORD guy gets it!!!
(kidding :p)
David
Yes, the car is an airpump. Like any airpump, there is a set finite capacity. The MAF seeing more air will not make the car move more air unless the rpms also rise. Only a certain amount of air can fit in 8 cylinders without forced induction, and that will never change
Also, please try to quote correctly. It is already hard to see where you are going with your posts without having to filter who is saying what.
12-28-2007, 07:47 PM
#72
You didnt answer the question.
IF THIS IS THE CASE, WHY DOES A CAI, AIRFOIL, HEADERS, CATBACK MAKE THE CAR FASTER? IT ENABLES IT TO PASS MORE AIR, IF YOU SPIN THE ENGINE MORE RPMS, DOES IT TAKE IN MORE AIR? YES...IT IS AN AIRPUMP AFTER ALL.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: but and NA engine seeing more air will not magically grow more cubes and raise its amount of air it can use at any given rpm.
Really? How does a blower work? Positive intake pressure right? Making the smaller engine ingest more air, JUST like a bigger cubic inch normally aspirated engine...RIGHT? So yes it can, even .5psi of intake tract positive pressure in the airbox increases power VS vacuum in the airbox.
How does lower da(density altitude) work? More air in the cylinder. The exact reason a car makes more power in colder air....RIGHT? SO a colder intake charge makes more power...RIGHT?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE:An NA 350ci block can only use ~650cfms at 6.5k rpms - no matter how awesome your heads are or what intake you happen to use . Since the 52mm already flows that much, the bigger TB is USELESS.
Are you KIDDING me???????????? Explain to me HOW a 346 inch LS1 makes 500 RWHP with AFR heads, Super Vic and a 1370 CFM 90 mm throttlebody? Are you saying it will make the SAME power through a STOCK 650 cfm throttlebody?
If this was the case EVERY 350 cube engine would make the SAME power no matter WHAT you did to it, and we ALL know that is not the case.
I have seen MANY MANY 350 inch small blocks running a 700cfm carb and go to an 850 or bigger and pick up et, explain that one away.
Man you are reaching for crap now.
Please keep responding...your load of crap gets better everytime you post!
Your responses are NOTHING more than info read on message boards and repeated.
David
IF THIS IS THE CASE, WHY DOES A CAI, AIRFOIL, HEADERS, CATBACK MAKE THE CAR FASTER? IT ENABLES IT TO PASS MORE AIR, IF YOU SPIN THE ENGINE MORE RPMS, DOES IT TAKE IN MORE AIR? YES...IT IS AN AIRPUMP AFTER ALL.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: but and NA engine seeing more air will not magically grow more cubes and raise its amount of air it can use at any given rpm.
Really? How does a blower work? Positive intake pressure right? Making the smaller engine ingest more air, JUST like a bigger cubic inch normally aspirated engine...RIGHT? So yes it can, even .5psi of intake tract positive pressure in the airbox increases power VS vacuum in the airbox.
How does lower da(density altitude) work? More air in the cylinder. The exact reason a car makes more power in colder air....RIGHT? SO a colder intake charge makes more power...RIGHT?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE:An NA 350ci block can only use ~650cfms at 6.5k rpms - no matter how awesome your heads are or what intake you happen to use . Since the 52mm already flows that much, the bigger TB is USELESS.
Are you KIDDING me???????????? Explain to me HOW a 346 inch LS1 makes 500 RWHP with AFR heads, Super Vic and a 1370 CFM 90 mm throttlebody? Are you saying it will make the SAME power through a STOCK 650 cfm throttlebody?
If this was the case EVERY 350 cube engine would make the SAME power no matter WHAT you did to it, and we ALL know that is not the case.
I have seen MANY MANY 350 inch small blocks running a 700cfm carb and go to an 850 or bigger and pick up et, explain that one away.
Man you are reaching for crap now.
Please keep responding...your load of crap gets better everytime you post!
Your responses are NOTHING more than info read on message boards and repeated.
David
12-28-2007, 07:53 PM
#74
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12-28-2007, 08:02 PM
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