Does Ram Air actually up your HP?
12-28-2007, 08:27 PM
#84
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Lets see he raced a Ford. His son Billy ran a Mustang in Pro 5.0 I believe. Why its good old Bob Glidden
That guy drives a Honda.
12-28-2007, 08:37 PM
#89
I wonder what Bob Glidden has to do with this discussion...something like "Im looking bad, lets make a quick irrelevant trivia so I look like a knowitall" move??
Ding, Ding..thats a winner!
Ding, Ding..thats a winner!
12-28-2007, 08:40 PM
#90
You didnt answer the question.
IF THIS IS THE CASE, WHY DOES A CAI, AIRFOIL, HEADERS, CATBACK MAKE THE CAR FASTER? IT ENABLES IT TO PASS MORE AIR, IF YOU SPIN THE ENGINE MORE RPMS, DOES IT TAKE IN MORE AIR? YES...IT IS AN AIRPUMP AFTER ALL.
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QUOTE: but and NA engine seeing more air will not magically grow more cubes and raise its amount of air it can use at any given rpm.
Really? How does a blower work? Positive intake pressure right? Making the smaller engine ingest more air, JUST like a bigger cubic inch normally aspirated engine...RIGHT? So yes it can, even .5psi of intake tract positive pressure in the airbox increases power VS vacuum in the airbox.
How does lower da(density altitude) work? More air in the cylinder. The exact reason a car makes more power in colder air....RIGHT? SO a colder intake charge makes more power...RIGHT?
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QUOTE:An NA 350ci block can only use ~650cfms at 6.5k rpms - no matter how awesome your heads are or what intake you happen to use . Since the 52mm already flows that much, the bigger TB is USELESS.
Are you KIDDING me???????????? Explain to me HOW a 346 inch LS1 makes 500 RWHP with AFR heads, Super Vic and a 1370 CFM 90 mm throttlebody? Are you saying it will make the SAME power through a STOCK 650 cfm throttlebody?
If this was the case EVERY 350 cube engine would make the SAME power no matter WHAT you did to it, and we ALL know that is not the case.
I have seen MANY MANY 350 inch small blocks running a 700cfm carb and go to an 850 or bigger and pick up et, explain that one away.
Man you are reaching for crap now.
Please keep responding...your load of crap gets better everytime you post!
Your responses are NOTHING more than info read on message boards and repeated.
David
IF THIS IS THE CASE, WHY DOES A CAI, AIRFOIL, HEADERS, CATBACK MAKE THE CAR FASTER? IT ENABLES IT TO PASS MORE AIR, IF YOU SPIN THE ENGINE MORE RPMS, DOES IT TAKE IN MORE AIR? YES...IT IS AN AIRPUMP AFTER ALL.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE: but and NA engine seeing more air will not magically grow more cubes and raise its amount of air it can use at any given rpm.
Really? How does a blower work? Positive intake pressure right? Making the smaller engine ingest more air, JUST like a bigger cubic inch normally aspirated engine...RIGHT? So yes it can, even .5psi of intake tract positive pressure in the airbox increases power VS vacuum in the airbox.
How does lower da(density altitude) work? More air in the cylinder. The exact reason a car makes more power in colder air....RIGHT? SO a colder intake charge makes more power...RIGHT?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE:An NA 350ci block can only use ~650cfms at 6.5k rpms - no matter how awesome your heads are or what intake you happen to use . Since the 52mm already flows that much, the bigger TB is USELESS.
Are you KIDDING me???????????? Explain to me HOW a 346 inch LS1 makes 500 RWHP with AFR heads, Super Vic and a 1370 CFM 90 mm throttlebody? Are you saying it will make the SAME power through a STOCK 650 cfm throttlebody?
If this was the case EVERY 350 cube engine would make the SAME power no matter WHAT you did to it, and we ALL know that is not the case.
I have seen MANY MANY 350 inch small blocks running a 700cfm carb and go to an 850 or bigger and pick up et, explain that one away.
Man you are reaching for crap now.
Please keep responding...your load of crap gets better everytime you post!
Your responses are NOTHING more than info read on message boards and repeated.
David
Also, please tell me you are not comparing your little hood to a blower.
Still stands - only so much can fit into 8 cylinders! Think about the math - 8 cylinders of a set volume each, being filled at a certain rpm...can only ever fit a certain amount of air!!!
This is simple common sense, not physics!!!
I bet the LS1 you mentioned is spinning well over 6500 rpms. At 6500 rpm a 700cfm 52mm will make the SAME power at 6500 as 1350cfm 90mm accufab with everything else being equal! If you go to 7k, THEN you will see a benefit!
12-28-2007, 08:40 PM
#91
AGAIN, an opinion you read somewhere. An ACTUAL track test was done on THIS very message board.....no gains were found.
But before you tag that test to this discussion, an LS1 "lid" is face down and has no ram air affect at all.
BUT a LT1 WS6 style lid sealed to the hood will and does.
David
12-28-2007, 08:40 PM
#92
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The answer has been posted here several time several different ways. I posted early in the thread. Ram Air has a negligable effect on HP. The cooler air is the only benefit at low speeds at high speeds the may be a slight advantage.
12-28-2007, 08:43 PM
#93
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No, because depending on the density, you will have more or less air molecules in the same space.
12-28-2007, 09:12 PM
#94
Nitt-picking facts will only drag on this beat to death topic even longer!
BTW Fast, look what I stumbled upon, about the whole "xxx cubes using only xxx cfms N/A" argument. An old write up by accufab themselves - the same company that boasts their 1300+cfm throttle bodies!
Coincidentally, it has a very relevant title which coincides with what you have already used multiple times to defend ws6 ram air: THE AIR PUMP UNDER YOUR HOOD. Enjoy!
**EDIT** For so many of us who like things "on a silver platter" like myself, here is the most relevent part
:
Originally Posted by George Klass from Accufab
Below is a chart with the CFM requirements, based on displacement (in cubic inches) and RPM. This chart will work for any piston engine with any number of cylinders. After you have determined the CFM for your specific engine combination, you can then choose the corresponding throttle body or carburetor size to best fit that combination.
DISPLACEMENT………….6000 RPM……….6500 RPM……….7000 RPM
280………..…………………486………………..527………………..567
290……..……………………503………………..545………………..587
300………..…………………521………………..564………………..608
310……..……………………538………………..583………………..628
320……..……………………556………………..602………………..648
330………..…………………573………………..621………………..668
340……………..……………590………………..639………………..689
350……..……………………608………….…….658………………..709
360………………..…………625………………..677………………..729
370………………..…………642………………..696………………..749
380………………..…………660………………..715………………..770
390………………..…………677………………..734………………..790
400………………..…………694………………..752………………..810
410………………..…………712………………..771………………..830
420………………..…………729………………..771………………..830
430………………..…………747………………..809………………..871
DISPLACEMENT………….6000 RPM……….6500 RPM……….7000 RPM
280………..…………………486………………..527………………..567
290……..……………………503………………..545………………..587
300………..…………………521………………..564………………..608
310……..……………………538………………..583………………..628
320……..……………………556………………..602………………..648
330………..…………………573………………..621………………..668
340……………..……………590………………..639………………..689
350……..……………………608………….…….658………………..709
360………………..…………625………………..677………………..729
370………………..…………642………………..696………………..749
380………………..…………660………………..715………………..770
390………………..…………677………………..734………………..790
400………………..…………694………………..752………………..810
410………………..…………712………………..771………………..830
420………………..…………729………………..771………………..830
430………………..…………747………………..809………………..871
12-28-2007, 09:16 PM
#95
Will it make the car much faster but ram air does help in theory.
I worked with pressure and vac tanker trucks for some time so lets think about it this way. If I had to set the truck to vac to fill it say it takes 4 minutes to fill the tank with water. Now I add a bit of positive pressure to the water do you mean that it will not fill my tank any faster come on.
The positive pressure helps to get the air moving in the direction of the combustion chamber before the piston starts to suck the air in.
Vac is being generated by the motor to get the air in it but there is less vac until the piston starts to move down in the bore a bit. If a tiny bit of positive pressure from the ram air pushes a tiny bit more air into it before the piston starts to suck you gained some air. I think this would help more at high rpms as there is less time to fill the cylinder with air.
Again is this going to make my car run circles around a non ram air no but it sure cant hurt.
I worked with pressure and vac tanker trucks for some time so lets think about it this way. If I had to set the truck to vac to fill it say it takes 4 minutes to fill the tank with water. Now I add a bit of positive pressure to the water do you mean that it will not fill my tank any faster come on.
The positive pressure helps to get the air moving in the direction of the combustion chamber before the piston starts to suck the air in.
Vac is being generated by the motor to get the air in it but there is less vac until the piston starts to move down in the bore a bit. If a tiny bit of positive pressure from the ram air pushes a tiny bit more air into it before the piston starts to suck you gained some air. I think this would help more at high rpms as there is less time to fill the cylinder with air.
Again is this going to make my car run circles around a non ram air no but it sure cant hurt.
12-28-2007, 09:17 PM
#96
Still didnt answer the question
Just more babble bullshit.
If the air is cooler, is it NOT more dense....can anyone put 2+2 together.
Even if the ram air does not put positive pressure in the box(which I believe it does), even if it HELPS the raise the negative pressure closer to zero it STILL helps the car breathe easier.
Those tables you posted from accufab dont mean squat, those are GUIDELINES.....do you have ANY idea what engine volumetric effeciency is? ANd that EVERY engine has a different VE number? ANd that VE is affected hugely by the camshaft, intake tract, headers and exhaust?
Your way of thinking says a normally aspirated engine can never achieve over 100% VE
Come on dude, think JUST A LITTLE BIT!
David
Just more babble bullshit.
If the air is cooler, is it NOT more dense....can anyone put 2+2 together.
Even if the ram air does not put positive pressure in the box(which I believe it does), even if it HELPS the raise the negative pressure closer to zero it STILL helps the car breathe easier.
Those tables you posted from accufab dont mean squat, those are GUIDELINES.....do you have ANY idea what engine volumetric effeciency is? ANd that EVERY engine has a different VE number? ANd that VE is affected hugely by the camshaft, intake tract, headers and exhaust?
Your way of thinking says a normally aspirated engine can never achieve over 100% VE
Come on dude, think JUST A LITTLE BIT!
David
Last edited by FASTFATBOY; 12-28-2007 at 09:27 PM.
12-28-2007, 09:46 PM
#97
12-29-2007, 06:39 AM
#99
Still didnt answer the question
Just more babble bullshit.
If the air is cooler, is it NOT more dense....can anyone put 2+2 together.
Even if the ram air does not put positive pressure in the box(which I believe it does), even if it HELPS the raise the negative pressure closer to zero it STILL helps the car breathe easier.
Those tables you posted from accufab dont mean squat, those are GUIDELINES.....do you have ANY idea what engine volumetric effeciency is? ANd that EVERY engine has a different VE number? ANd that VE is affected hugely by the camshaft, intake tract, headers and exhaust?
Your way of thinking says a normally aspirated engine can never achieve over 100% VE
Come on dude, think JUST A LITTLE BIT!
David
Just more babble bullshit.
If the air is cooler, is it NOT more dense....can anyone put 2+2 together.
Even if the ram air does not put positive pressure in the box(which I believe it does), even if it HELPS the raise the negative pressure closer to zero it STILL helps the car breathe easier.
Those tables you posted from accufab dont mean squat, those are GUIDELINES.....do you have ANY idea what engine volumetric effeciency is? ANd that EVERY engine has a different VE number? ANd that VE is affected hugely by the camshaft, intake tract, headers and exhaust?
Your way of thinking says a normally aspirated engine can never achieve over 100% VE
Come on dude, think JUST A LITTLE BIT!
David
In reality 90-100% @ peak tq for a H/C engine or so, even on a serious build, is much more realistic Also, thank you for finally agreeing that the "ram air" setup is basically only good for lower IATs
. Too bad it took two threads and over 10 pages of the same thing 
.
12-29-2007, 07:05 AM
#100
COme on man, a good head/cam package can achieve over 100% VE...GEEZ. Doesn't have to be a "well built race engine" How do you think these 500 rwhp stock bottom end LS1's make that power???????????????
How do you think a Head/cam LT1 makes 430 rwhp????????? Both are over 100% VE
You stated a 350 ci engine will pull "X" amount of air in, no matter what. Well you are WRONG, If that was the case ALL 350's would make the same power. Or "top out" at the same power.
How does a Nascar 358 inch engine make 800hp????????????????? VE is through the roof! It is able to cram more air in the cylinder than the typical 350, HOW? Better heads, intake, exhaust etc which makes VE go up.
Well anyway, I am gonna take MAF readings with the hood nostrils open AND blocked....we will see. Car will be running again this weekend.
David
How do you think a Head/cam LT1 makes 430 rwhp????????? Both are over 100% VE
You stated a 350 ci engine will pull "X" amount of air in, no matter what. Well you are WRONG, If that was the case ALL 350's would make the same power. Or "top out" at the same power.
How does a Nascar 358 inch engine make 800hp????????????????? VE is through the roof! It is able to cram more air in the cylinder than the typical 350, HOW? Better heads, intake, exhaust etc which makes VE go up.
Well anyway, I am gonna take MAF readings with the hood nostrils open AND blocked....we will see. Car will be running again this weekend.
David