timing vs. A/F
08-10-2012, 11:34 AM
#1
Staging Lane
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timing vs. A/F probably a dumb question, but does detonation show up on an A/F gauge if there is to much timing? I was running a 150 wet shot with 3 degree's of timing pulled and didn't have any audible detonation and A/F was 11.5. Ran great, but I was wondering if there was to much timing in it would it show an abnormality in the A/F? Plugs look good, but I can't shut it off after ther run, so there is some NA and idle time on them before I can pull them.
08-10-2012, 07:18 PM
#5
Sounds good are you driving on them still?
It's nearly impossible to get a fully accurate plug reading without at least towing back from the run or pulling them on the return road.
I used to think guys were full of it, or that it just didn't matter. Boy was I ever wrong!
It's nearly impossible to get a fully accurate plug reading without at least towing back from the run or pulling them on the return road.
I used to think guys were full of it, or that it just didn't matter. Boy was I ever wrong!
08-10-2012, 07:48 PM
#6
Staging Lane
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Sounds good are you driving on them still?
It's nearly impossible to get a fully accurate plug reading without at least towing back from the run or pulling them on the return road.
I used to think guys were full of it, or that it just didn't matter. Boy was I ever wrong!
It's nearly impossible to get a fully accurate plug reading without at least towing back from the run or pulling them on the return road.
I used to think guys were full of it, or that it just didn't matter. Boy was I ever wrong!
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08-11-2012, 10:47 AM
#11
Heat on the strap looks decent, but I'm still leery of you only pulling 3 degrees.
Lean it out and get it in the 12.3-12.5 AFR range and pull 3 more degrees.
I am willing to bet it will run faster leaner and lower on timing. They almost always do.
Branden...you know me too well, only I got a different screen name now
Lean it out and get it in the 12.3-12.5 AFR range and pull 3 more degrees.
I am willing to bet it will run faster leaner and lower on timing. They almost always do.
Branden...you know me too well, only I got a different screen name now
08-13-2012, 11:46 PM
#12
Heat on the strap looks decent, but I'm still leery of you only pulling 3 degrees.
Lean it out and get it in the 12.3-12.5 AFR range and pull 3 more degrees.
I am willing to bet it will run faster leaner and lower on timing. They almost always do.
Branden...you know me too well, only I got a different screen name now
Lean it out and get it in the 12.3-12.5 AFR range and pull 3 more degrees.
I am willing to bet it will run faster leaner and lower on timing. They almost always do.
Branden...you know me too well, only I got a different screen name now
I would never advise someone who is not a decent tuner already to just lean it out to the mid 12's based on a wideband.
Also the amount pulled really depends on how much timing was in the car to begin with as well as how aggressive the tune up is on motor.
If the car is already at mid 11's on the wideband, pull out 3-4 degrees of timing. Make a pass, read the plugs, and adjust from there.
08-14-2012, 07:43 AM
#13
That plugs tells you nothing.
I would never advise someone who is not a decent tuner already to just lean it out to the mid 12's based on a wideband.
Also the amount pulled really depends on how much timing was in the car to begin with as well as how aggressive the tune up is on motor.
If the car is already at mid 11's on the wideband, pull out 3-4 degrees of timing. Make a pass, read the plugs, and adjust from there.
I would never advise someone who is not a decent tuner already to just lean it out to the mid 12's based on a wideband.
Also the amount pulled really depends on how much timing was in the car to begin with as well as how aggressive the tune up is on motor.
If the car is already at mid 11's on the wideband, pull out 3-4 degrees of timing. Make a pass, read the plugs, and adjust from there.
I've read enough plugs in the mid 11's range and in the mid 12 range to know which one it needs to have, and I've never seen one that was clean with an 11 anything in the AFR reading.
If you ask ATV racer, Camscam, or Shiz they will all tell you the same thing. Get it in the low to mid 12's where it's going to need to be to start cleaning up the plugs and keep it low on timing while you're doing this.
Timing doesn't make horsepower the mixture of fuel, nitrous and air do, timing just dictates when you light that mixture off. If it's rich it will never make the power it can or should and you're really just wasting plugs, nitrous and passes. I know because I have done it myself.
So, pull a good bit of timing out of it, lean it out and get your tune-up right while reading the plugs so you know what the right AFR mixture looks like on the plugs. 11's is just pissing in the wind in the end.
Last edited by Sales@Tick; 08-14-2012 at 07:50 AM.
08-14-2012, 10:23 AM
#14
Why would you want it in the mid 11's knowing it's going to need at least the AFR I said to start to clean up the plugs?
I've read enough plugs in the mid 11's range and in the mid 12 range to know which one it needs to have, and I've never seen one that was clean with an 11 anything in the AFR reading.
If you ask ATV racer, Camscam, or Shiz they will all tell you the same thing. Get it in the low to mid 12's where it's going to need to be to start cleaning up the plugs and keep it low on timing while you're doing this.
Timing doesn't make horsepower the mixture of fuel, nitrous and air do, timing just dictates when you light that mixture off. If it's rich it will never make the power it can or should and you're really just wasting plugs, nitrous and passes. I know because I have done it myself.
So, pull a good bit of timing out of it, lean it out and get your tune-up right while reading the plugs so you know what the right AFR mixture looks like on the plugs. 11's is just pissing in the wind in the end.
I've read enough plugs in the mid 11's range and in the mid 12 range to know which one it needs to have, and I've never seen one that was clean with an 11 anything in the AFR reading.
If you ask ATV racer, Camscam, or Shiz they will all tell you the same thing. Get it in the low to mid 12's where it's going to need to be to start cleaning up the plugs and keep it low on timing while you're doing this.
Timing doesn't make horsepower the mixture of fuel, nitrous and air do, timing just dictates when you light that mixture off. If it's rich it will never make the power it can or should and you're really just wasting plugs, nitrous and passes. I know because I have done it myself.
So, pull a good bit of timing out of it, lean it out and get your tune-up right while reading the plugs so you know what the right AFR mixture looks like on the plugs. 11's is just pissing in the wind in the end.
He says to start in the 11's becauseoldschool
08-14-2012, 02:01 PM
#16
you cant really do timing on plugs very accurately..
heat yes...timing no
A/F... you can see pretty easily on the plugs
stay with a static lower timing value, Start around 12.0 AFR(0.81 Lambda), and work your way leaner until the plugs clean up
best way to do it is to take several changes of plugs to the track
start with your timing low, and bring it up until you stop getting a better ET
keep looking at plugs and checking the heat range as you go...
if the heat gets too far up the strap, then you go to a colder plug
when you stop seeing any significant changes in your ET, then you are done.
then you can do the same with timing....start low, work your way up a degree or two at a time...
there will be a point where you add timing, and you dont run any faster....that is when you stop adding timing
heat yes...timing no
A/F... you can see pretty easily on the plugs
stay with a static lower timing value, Start around 12.0 AFR(0.81 Lambda), and work your way leaner until the plugs clean up
best way to do it is to take several changes of plugs to the track
start with your timing low, and bring it up until you stop getting a better ET
keep looking at plugs and checking the heat range as you go...
if the heat gets too far up the strap, then you go to a colder plug
when you stop seeing any significant changes in your ET, then you are done.
then you can do the same with timing....start low, work your way up a degree or two at a time...
there will be a point where you add timing, and you dont run any faster....that is when you stop adding timing
08-14-2012, 04:40 PM
#17
Why would you want it in the mid 11's knowing it's going to need at least the AFR I said to start to clean up the plugs?
I've read enough plugs in the mid 11's range and in the mid 12 range to know which one it needs to have, and I've never seen one that was clean with an 11 anything in the AFR reading.
If you ask ATV racer, Camscam, or Shiz they will all tell you the same thing. Get it in the low to mid 12's where it's going to need to be to start cleaning up the plugs and keep it low on timing while you're doing this.
Timing doesn't make horsepower the mixture of fuel, nitrous and air do, timing just dictates when you light that mixture off. If it's rich it will never make the power it can or should and you're really just wasting plugs, nitrous and passes. I know because I have done it myself.
So, pull a good bit of timing out of it, lean it out and get your tune-up right while reading the plugs so you know what the right AFR mixture looks like on the plugs. 11's is just pissing in the wind in the end.
I've read enough plugs in the mid 11's range and in the mid 12 range to know which one it needs to have, and I've never seen one that was clean with an 11 anything in the AFR reading.
If you ask ATV racer, Camscam, or Shiz they will all tell you the same thing. Get it in the low to mid 12's where it's going to need to be to start cleaning up the plugs and keep it low on timing while you're doing this.
Timing doesn't make horsepower the mixture of fuel, nitrous and air do, timing just dictates when you light that mixture off. If it's rich it will never make the power it can or should and you're really just wasting plugs, nitrous and passes. I know because I have done it myself.
So, pull a good bit of timing out of it, lean it out and get your tune-up right while reading the plugs so you know what the right AFR mixture looks like on the plugs. 11's is just pissing in the wind in the end.
Yes, all of those guys will tell you that. They are also very educated tuners who pull the plugs on nearly every pass. I tune the same way. But again, suggesting a novice to make a full afr point change based of a wideband is asking for trouble in my opinion.
Like I said mid-high 11's with the proper timing pulled out will not hurt anything. Of course there is power on the table, but that is not going to hurt parts. Make a pass with the same jets and a little more timing pulled out. Tune off of those plugs.
Small steps and going off of accurate plugs will keep the parts alive.
Ill skip the ABC paragraph on how tuning works. I just think your suggesting big changes to someone who needs to slow down.
08-14-2012, 04:46 PM
#18
I am not arguing that it will need to be in 12's most likely. I am saying that you should not just tell someone to tune it to the 12's on a wideband when they are clearly a novice to tuning.
Yes, all of those guys will tell you that. They are also very educated tuners who pull the plugs on nearly every pass. I tune the same way. But again, suggesting a novice to make a full afr point change based of a wideband is asking for trouble in my opinion.
Like I said mid-high 11's with the proper timing pulled out will not hurt anything. Of course there is power on the table, but that is not going to hurt parts. Make a pass with the same jets and a little more timing pulled out. Tune off of those plugs.
Small steps and going off of accurate plugs will keep the parts alive.
Ill skip the ABC paragraph on how tuning works. I just think your suggesting big changes to someone who needs to slow down.
Yes, all of those guys will tell you that. They are also very educated tuners who pull the plugs on nearly every pass. I tune the same way. But again, suggesting a novice to make a full afr point change based of a wideband is asking for trouble in my opinion.
Like I said mid-high 11's with the proper timing pulled out will not hurt anything. Of course there is power on the table, but that is not going to hurt parts. Make a pass with the same jets and a little more timing pulled out. Tune off of those plugs.
Small steps and going off of accurate plugs will keep the parts alive.
Ill skip the ABC paragraph on how tuning works. I just think your suggesting big changes to someone who needs to slow down.
I have never seen a nitrous car like 11.anything
I'm at 12.5 on a 350 shot.......no engine issues
and I could probably go leaner...
08-14-2012, 04:50 PM
#19
Or did you start more conservative and with very low timing, get the fuel right based off of the plugs and then add timing back slowly?
08-14-2012, 04:53 PM
#20
I started at 12.0 with 14* pulled out....
Traction is my issue...and I had an electrical issue...
so I stopped at at 12.5 for now....
will be going at it again once I swap everything into the mustang chassis
plugs look ok, but could definitely go a little leaner...
I'm on a #9 and may go to a #10 when I start to bring the timing back in..
and actually, I started on stage one only, and then added in stage 2....