Nitrogen Push Guys, question for you
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From: The Chicken Ranch, California
Nitrogen Push Guys, question for you Any of you have any idea what the smallest bottle I can get away with for the nitrogen if it's at 4500 PSI for pushing a 10 pound bottle? TIA
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I saw on one of the old Push posts that most nitrogen refill places won't go past ~2500 psi. Are you really looking to put a 4500psi system in - and can you get a place to fill it that high? Just curious.
there is a formula. I just havent had any luck in finding it. It should be pretty simple though...and basically what was said above.
If you knew how many cubic feet a ten lb bottle was..and how many cubic feet the nitrogen bottle was...you should be able to calculate starting pressure and finishing pressure when the two bottle equalize in pressure.
I am assuming our going to use the small paintball high pressure carbin fiber bottles that go to like 4500 psi. I would say that if you can find one 1/4 in volume of the 10 lb bottle you will have more than enough to push out the nitrous from a 10 lb bottle.
I will have time at work tonight...I will see if I can find a formula as well as volume dimessions for a 10 lb bottle.
If you knew how many cubic feet a ten lb bottle was..and how many cubic feet the nitrogen bottle was...you should be able to calculate starting pressure and finishing pressure when the two bottle equalize in pressure.
I am assuming our going to use the small paintball high pressure carbin fiber bottles that go to like 4500 psi. I would say that if you can find one 1/4 in volume of the 10 lb bottle you will have more than enough to push out the nitrous from a 10 lb bottle.
I will have time at work tonight...I will see if I can find a formula as well as volume dimessions for a 10 lb bottle.
Thats why I switched to the Solinoid. Its like $129...and the pressure switch from Dynotune is like $69.
The Deadenbear solinoid I use is only rated to 3000 psi. That may be a problem. Also the lines you will need to run from the high pressure bottle to the control noid will have to be rated for up to 4500 psi. That may be a little more expensive than regular lines. I would say if you could find a bottle large enough that would push a full 10 lb bottle with the "pusher" bottle starting presure at 3000 psi...maybe a tad higher you would be better off. The cutoff for many standard parts is right around 3000 psi. Much higher than that and things can get a little more pricey and less common.
The Deadenbear solinoid I use is only rated to 3000 psi. That may be a problem. Also the lines you will need to run from the high pressure bottle to the control noid will have to be rated for up to 4500 psi. That may be a little more expensive than regular lines. I would say if you could find a bottle large enough that would push a full 10 lb bottle with the "pusher" bottle starting presure at 3000 psi...maybe a tad higher you would be better off. The cutoff for many standard parts is right around 3000 psi. Much higher than that and things can get a little more pricey and less common.
Damn...Boyles law is the basic formula when dealing with pressure vs volume. Its a simple equation. If a container is 100 ci and has 1000 psi in it....keeping temp constant if you reduce the size of the container to 50ci (by half) pressure will double to 2000 psi. But in our little scenario...its alot more complictaed I guess. We have to account for pressure equalization between two containers.
If you have two cylinders each 100 ci and cylinder a has 2000 psi and cylinder b has 0 psi and you open a valve between them and let the pressure equalize you will end up with 1000 psi obviously. Now say cyinder b is 200ci and has 0 psi. Is the pressure 500 psi? No its not. It would only be 500 psi if all the mass from the first cylinder went into the second. This wont happen since the pressure will equalize at some point and some of the gas will remain is each cylinder.
From what I have seen the biggest paintball container is about 114 ci..and a 10 lb nitrous bottle is around 600 ci. So the question is....if cylinder A is 114 ci and has 4500 psi and is connected to cylinder B that is 600 ci and the pressure is allowed to equalize....where would the pressure equalize?
If you have two cylinders each 100 ci and cylinder a has 2000 psi and cylinder b has 0 psi and you open a valve between them and let the pressure equalize you will end up with 1000 psi obviously. Now say cyinder b is 200ci and has 0 psi. Is the pressure 500 psi? No its not. It would only be 500 psi if all the mass from the first cylinder went into the second. This wont happen since the pressure will equalize at some point and some of the gas will remain is each cylinder.
From what I have seen the biggest paintball container is about 114 ci..and a 10 lb nitrous bottle is around 600 ci. So the question is....if cylinder A is 114 ci and has 4500 psi and is connected to cylinder B that is 600 ci and the pressure is allowed to equalize....where would the pressure equalize?
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From: The Chicken Ranch, California
By my calculations, a 10 pound NOS bottle is approximately 800ci (pi*r^2*h, 3.14*3.5^2*21 - took off a couple ci's to account for the rounded top). So with this information, I don't think the paintball bottles will work. 
is it possible to use compressed air instead of nitrogen? I went too my paintball store to get my tank filled, and guess what my reg on the cylinder is set to....950 psi exactly. so if you could use compressed air, dont see why not its just nitrogen (78.09%) and oxygen (20.95%). The remaining 1% is made up of argon (0.93%), carbon dioxide (0.03%) and other trace gases (0.003%). What I figure i would do is drain my tank, and get a blow down tube at the same time. Put a check valve, and a 4an fitting on the tanks spare port, and run the paintball tank to the check valves 4 an fitting with an extra 18" 4an line I have. Or i guess i could go get my monster nitrogen tank refilled and fill my own paintball tank. after all the paintball shop wants 3 dollars a fill, and i can fill my monsterous nitrogen tank for $17 and all i would need is 2 or 3 fittings.
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funny you should mention compressed air, I PM'd 383lq4ss and asked him what he thought of that and asked a couple of friends their views on it as well. the general consensus is try it, don't see why it wouldn't work. how big is your paintball air tank?
well...i am making all the calculation based on the nitrous tank being empty since we will be ending up almost empty. There will still be some pressure that would be in the nitrous tank when it has say.....1/2 lb of juice left...but it might be 500 psi or so. So I figure if you calculate it using an empty nitrous bottle and you end up where the pressures would equalize at say...1000psi...you should a have a little room to spare.
Whats the largest paintball tank they make? I think if you had one around 200 ci and 4500 psi it would push a 10 lb bottle. Paintball regulators will go to 950 psi? How much is this stuff?
Whats the largest paintball tank they make? I think if you had one around 200 ci and 4500 psi it would push a 10 lb bottle. Paintball regulators will go to 950 psi? How much is this stuff?