To prove my point nitrous does help make things worst during a fire
08-09-2006, 10:57 AM
#41
Originally Posted by srsnow
Nitrous can make a fire a lot worse. I was just doing this last night. Take liquid nitrous and pour it on a fire and see how much hotter and brighter it will get. Pour liquid nitrous on a smoldering coal or pice of wood and watch it catch back on fire. Take liquid nitrous and pour it on a paper towel and then put the paper towel in a fire and watch burn almost instantly. The nitrous will cause things to burn a lot hotter.
Originally Posted by srsnow
I'm surprised that this is such a controversial subject. What do you think happens when you put nitrous in an engine? Nitrous is an oxidizer it will support combustion that is a fact. Like I said earlier pour some liquid nitrous on a fire and see what happens. And to be completely honest I am surprised that the people that work for some of the nitrous companies aren't more aware of what nitrous is and how it works. The idea that introducing nitrous to a fire can cause it to burn faster is a very basic principle of nitrous oxide and should be understood by anyone who is designing and selling nitrous kits. The video that Red90cobra posted is exactly what nitrous does it aids in combustion.
i bolded the parts that show you're completely ignorant on the subject...
seriously though, everyone.. it all hinges on two facts.
there is sustained combustion over 57x*F
there is fuel for the fire (not necessarily gasoline.... plastic, rubber, ect is also a fuel)
now i KNOW from being in the fire dept that a car fire can exceed 600* underhood easily.
so its reasonable to assume that while N2O is inert and will not support a fire... at the temps presented underhood, a open nitrous line would break down, and provide a Oxygen rich environment.
this does NOT mean it burns.
this does NOT mean it makes things burn.
im just saying, its breaking down to Nitrogen and Oxygen underhood.
now lets think here.. how does a fire extinguisher work?
most of them SMOTHER the fire, eliminating oxygen from it.
the fuel is still there.
the heat is there until it cools off. (lol simple statement i know, but bare with me)
now, if you have nitrous oxide breaking down, providing a VERY oxygen rich environment, hitting it with a extinguisher may or may not stop the fire. its a crapshoot. depends on alot of factors that are specific to that situation.
all that said, most of the time, a regular ABC extinguisher will snuff it out... its only the rare occasion that the N2O is leaking just right to get hot, break down, and provide oxygen for the fire in a manner that is not easily extinguished... the POTENTIAL is there, but the statistical chances of it happening are very slim.
08-09-2006, 12:23 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by MrDude_1
i bolded the parts that show you're completely ignorant on the subject...
Can you elobarate on this? Am I ignorant becuase you can't get liquid nitrous? Or that liquid nitrous won't support combustion? Or that nitrous in liquid form is diffrent from nitrous in gaseous form? It is very possible that I am indeed ignorant to many things but I do have a decent amount of experence with nitrous.
08-09-2006, 12:29 PM
#43
Originally Posted by srsnow
Can you elobarate on this? Am I ignorant becuase you can't get liquid nitrous? Or that liquid nitrous won't support combustion? Or that nitrous in liquid form is diffrent from nitrous in gaseous form? It is very possible that I am indeed ignorant to many things but I do have a decent amount of experence with nitrous.
the nitrous that is in a tank is only liquid in the tank because its under pressure.
if you were to attempt to "pour" it anywhere, it would just be a gas. as soon as you open the bottle, it all shoots out... you cannot "pour" it on anything.
08-09-2006, 12:49 PM
#44
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Yes you can I have done it. On many different occasions in fact try it it is fun. If need be I will post a video of me pouring liquid nitrous on something. But trust me when I say you can get liquid nitrous out side of a bottle. And in fact anyone that has filled nitrous bottles and gotten splashed by the nitrous when they are disconnecting the line has experienced liquid nitrous that is existing outside the bottle.
08-09-2006, 01:12 PM
#45
Chemistry 102
The nitrous that is in a tank is only liquid in the tank because its under pressure. If you were to attempt to "pour" it anywhere, it would just turn to a gas. As soon as you open the bottle, it all shoots out. You cannot "pour" it on anything.
PV = nRT (Look it up, seach under the "Ideal Gas Law".)
"Liquid" N2O will indeed go directly to a gas when released from a canister. In addition, that change from liquid to gas requires heat, and there inlies the cooling effect of N2O.
Additionally, when N2O is heated and breaks down to it's subcomponents, one of those elements is Oxygen, therefore to say it does or doesn't burn is completely dependent on the temperature of it's environment, and if it has or has not broken down.
Let's just look at this logically for a moment (as it relates to adding N2O to an engine for additional power):
If N2O did NOT add Oxygen to the combustion process, and we added it and extra gasoline to the engine (as we do when using N2O, either in the form of an external jet in "wet" systems, or by inducing the PCM to do so in "dry" systems), then the ratio of gas to air would be far too RICH and power would fall off.
But what is the problem we're always told to avoid with N2O? A LEAN condition that burns holes in pistions! Why would the addition of an inert substance that does not contain Oxygen (as some of you folks seem to claim) potientally cause a LEAN burn condition? It simply cannot. Why do most people, knowledgable with nitrous, favor "wet" systems over "dry"? Because there is a reduction in the likehood of burning up your engine, caused from a lean combustion condition.
When heated, N2O breaks down just as Nitromethane does; both provide extra Oxygen to the combustion process, Nitromethane just adds an extra super-explosive fuel too!
MIKE
08-09-2006, 01:12 PM
#46
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yeah...im pretty sure you can get liquid outside the ebottle. It just probably wont last long. Kinda like when you spray the Quick Freeze from a can into a plastic bag to get the liquid.
I am sure that if you guys do that or try to experiment it could be nasty if you got it in your eyes or possibly skin. Be careful!
We use alot of liquid nitrogen here at work. Its not to be taken lightly.
I am sure that if you guys do that or try to experiment it could be nasty if you got it in your eyes or possibly skin. Be careful!
We use alot of liquid nitrogen here at work. Its not to be taken lightly.
08-09-2006, 01:14 PM
#47
Originally Posted by srsnow
Yes you can I have done it. On many different occasions in fact try it it is fun. If need be I will post a video of me pouring liquid nitrous on something. But trust me when I say you can get liquid nitrous out side of a bottle. And in fact anyone that has filled nitrous bottles and gotten splashed by the nitrous when they are disconnecting the line has experienced liquid nitrous that is existing outside the bottle.
lol, seriously though, if its not under pressure, it will not last long.. certainly not long enough to pour.
08-09-2006, 01:22 PM
#48
Originally Posted by 383LQ4SS
yeah...im pretty sure you can get liquid outside the ebottle. It just probably wont last long. Kinda like when you spray the Quick Freeze from a can into a plastic bag to get the liquid.
I am sure that if you guys do that or try to experiment it could be nasty if you got it in your eyes or possibly skin. Be careful!
We use alot of liquid nitrogen here at work. Its not to be taken lightly.
I am sure that if you guys do that or try to experiment it could be nasty if you got it in your eyes or possibly skin. Be careful!
We use alot of liquid nitrogen here at work. Its not to be taken lightly.
ok, imagine for a second that the nitrous is an ice cube.
if its cold enough, you can take that ice cube out of its bottle, and it doesnt melt.
if its warm out,you can take that ice cube out of its bottle, and it doesnt instantly turn to water.. it slowly melts.... because its colder then the surrounding atmosphere.. so even when its not under pressure, it takes time to absorb the heat and change states.
but the nitrous oxide in your tank, is the same temp as outside... if not higher from a bottle heater... because of this, as soon as the pressure is gone, it will instantly change states.
now, if you took that bottle, kept it in that slim temp range between freezing and boiling, it would become a liquid naturally.. then you can take off the valve and pour it out... until it heats up and changes to a gas again.
so yes, you COULD get some cold nitrous-oxide and pour it... but not from a automobile tank.... and on the subject we were originally on, thats all that matters.
08-09-2006, 01:25 PM
#49
Liquid N2O? For how long?
Originally Posted by srsnow
Yes you can I have done it. On many different occasions in fact try it it is fun. If need be I will post a video of me pouring liquid nitrous on something. But trust me when I say you can get liquid nitrous out side of a bottle. And in fact anyone that has filled nitrous bottles and gotten splashed by the nitrous when they are disconnecting the line has experienced liquid nitrous that is existing outside the bottle.
Back in Chem Lab, we had a crazy professor who would play with Liquid Nitrogen ...for a few seconds, then it would evaporate.
Once he scooped up a handfull of the stuff and threw it on MY chest! When the liquid bounced off me, it dissipated before it hit the ground. I thought his hands would be frozen solid, just like in the school movies we've all seen where someone uses a banana to drive a nail, but he held them together for a few seconds (no more than 15), and the small frozen portion was fine.
At room temps, N2O is a gas, NOT a liquid.
MIKE
08-09-2006, 01:31 PM
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Well I live in southern California and have done this in the summer. Try it, I already outlined how to do it. Even in the dead of summer when I fill bottles I can still get splashed with small drops of nitrous if not careful.
Last edited by srsnow; 08-09-2006 at 01:47 PM.
08-09-2006, 01:34 PM
#51
Originally Posted by srsnow
Well I live in southern California and have done this in the summer. Try it, I already outlined how to do it. Even in the dead of summer when I fill bottles I can still get soplashed with small drops of nitrous if not careful.
i believe you're confusing nitrous with the water that gets condensed out of the air from the leaking nitrous.
like they said above, its a endothermic event.. it sucks the heat out of the air... and just like the dew falls when the temps drop, or like your glass of soda on a hot day... water condenses out of the air.
if you crack any nitrous bottle, or even when you purge on a humid day, this is that "icy coating" you see on things... frozen water.
08-09-2006, 01:44 PM
#52
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Liquid nitrogen and liquid nitrous are not the same. The amount of time it will remain liquid will very depending on how well insulated the container is. One of the more recent times I have done it we had it in a cup for around 2 minutes before pouring it out.
08-09-2006, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by GM Muscle
I agree that in 99% of the backfires you see, the nitrous itself will not contribute to intesifying the fire other than the fanning of fuel that was mentioned.
However, check out this nasty backfire from piedmont last year, http://video.ls1tech.com/video/21b31...17014ae5ea.htm . Check out the intense flame that erupts from under the scoop. I can't help but wonder if this was a situation where the nitrous did act as an oxidizer.
However, check out this nasty backfire from piedmont last year, http://video.ls1tech.com/video/21b31...17014ae5ea.htm . Check out the intense flame that erupts from under the scoop. I can't help but wonder if this was a situation where the nitrous did act as an oxidizer.
it looks like it because it's pushing the flames out from under the hood, not a little, I mean big. So there pressure under the hood and I'm sure the heat under that hood is more than 572 degrees. so I'm sure it helped. should be plenty of fuel for the fire under there.
08-09-2006, 02:09 PM
#58
Originally Posted by 383LQ4SS
Im pretty sure you can get liquid nitrous guys.
cold = liquid.
room temp = gas when not under pressure.
Originally Posted by srsnow
Frozen water doesn't sizzle when it hits the ground or burn you when it touches your skin.
but whatever.
Last edited by MrDude_1; 08-09-2006 at 02:10 PM. Reason: edit because i used teh wrong word.
08-09-2006, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MrDude_1
go re-read what i said.
cold = liquid.
room temp = gas when not under pressure.
uhh, yes it does. water may freeze at 32*, but it can still get alot colder.. you touch something cold enough and it burns your skin.
but whatever.
cold = liquid.
room temp = gas when not under pressure.
uhh, yes it does. water may freeze at 32*, but it can still get alot colder.. you touch something cold enough and it burns your skin.
but whatever.
I read it the first time. If nitrous is gathered in such a way that Srsnow is saying...it will collect at a faster rate than it can be evaporated. Obviously at room temp nitrous WILL BECOME a gas. But it could stay liquid for a short period of time. probably long enough to mess with. There are lots of substances that are gas at room temp that can stay liquid for short periods of time under the right curcumstances. It all depends on how volitile they are.