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820rwhp on 1st stage

Old Apr 17, 2007 | 02:22 PM
  #21  
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i also run 9's 8's are ok, and will melt faster which could be good i guess, but i like the 9's
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 02:33 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by next
I've run a 7 and an 8 in the past on that much gas. I've also hurt the motor a couple of times You can probably do 8s and be ok. My thinking is that it's usually several small things combined that lead to catastrophic failure and as many safe guards you can make, the better off you are. Now you see why I run 9s (plus they read the right range on the plug).
Cool, I was actually a little skeptical to go to 8's cuz I didn't wanna foul them, but i've got the tune much better now that I got efilive and a wideband, so it idles a lot leaner now, so I could probably get away with 9's. What do you mean by they read the right heat range on the plug?
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 05:04 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by ls1408cp
will the car run on 9s na? Does it run ok?
If it dont, you need to fire your tuner.

http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...t=HPIM0704.flv
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 05:05 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Loudmouth LS1
Cool, I was actually a little skeptical to go to 8's cuz I didn't wanna foul them, but i've got the tune much better now that I got efilive and a wideband, so it idles a lot leaner now, so I could probably get away with 9's. What do you mean by they read the right heat range on the plug?
Probably by reading the heat on the threads
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Loudmouth LS1
Cool, I was actually a little skeptical to go to 8's cuz I didn't wanna foul them, but i've got the tune much better now that I got efilive and a wideband, so it idles a lot leaner now, so I could probably get away with 9's. What do you mean by they read the right heat range on the plug?
Originally Posted by 1936FordPU
Probably by reading the heat on the threads
You look at the ground strap for heat range. You want the color change to be half way up the strap for the right range. Too close to the tip is too cold and too close to the base ring is too hot. This is one of the easiest things to read on a plug as you'll see a definite line of color change (dark to light).
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by next
You look at the ground strap for heat range. You want the color change to be half way up the strap for the right range. Too close to the tip is too cold and too close to the base ring is too hot. This is one of the easiest things to read on a plug as you'll see a definite line of color change (dark to light).
And this is after a 1/4 pass and shutting down immediately after goin through traps, correct? I've been meaning to ask, can you help me read my plugs at dh4? I don't wanna just go off what the wideband is tellin me, cuz it's tellin me after 2nd gear i'm dippin mid to low 9's a/f and before I go leanin it out, I wanna be sure it's actually that fat!
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 08:08 PM
  #27  
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The wideband was telling us it was way rich also but the plugs didn't show that. I will be running TR9s or 10s when I go to the track. I will be more then safe with this setup. We will be pulling alittle fuel out of some of the cylinders with the BS3 where the EGTs showed to be to colder. We are going to try and get all cylinders really close together while going down track now that we have a close tune. Everyone on here please realize that I am not just trying to make a big number. I am really trying for big ET numbers. The car weighs 3K with me in it.....We are hoping for soem 5.4xs on one stage. That should damn near beat the record on one stage. Then I have another one for alittle extra. I will probably end up not spraying another 300 but rather 200 and pray to God it lives. Should make the 1K mark but who knows. This is not my first rodeo but this **** is not easy or everyone would be doing it. There are alot of people that talk **** but it really boils down to who can really do and keep doing it.
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 08:14 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by next
You look at the ground strap for heat range. You want the color change to be half way up the strap for the right range. Too close to the tip is too cold and too close to the base ring is too hot. This is one of the easiest things to read on a plug as you'll see a definite line of color change (dark to light).
That would be your timing mark as well where the shade color chances. Your heat is also dependent on the shade of the top thread area. But for the most part you are correct. Just wanted to add a little more to the puzzle.

Just as a reference for the rest of you guys...

Reading For Air Fuel Mixture

The porcelain around the plug’s center electrode can be divided into three areas for reading. The area that is closest to the tip is affected by the idle and transition circuits carburetor circuits and is of no real concern to a racer. If this area is gray then you drove the car back to the pits and you cannot correctly read the plugs. The middle area is only colored when you drive down the road at around a steady 30-40 mph and is normally affected by the primary circuit jetting with the power valve closed and this is really of no concern to the racer. The area you are interested in is that third that is all the way up inside the plug where the sun don't shine. This area is colored when all is wide open under full power because the combustion chamber heat totally cleans off the other two areas. It will take a special plug reading flashlight with the magnifying glass to view it correctly. Plugs cannot be correctly read by just quickly looking at them with the naked eye. You see people doing it all the time because they do not know how to read plugs.

Normally aspirated cars should have a light gray or tan hydrocarbon ring or as some call it a "fuel ring" all the way up inside around the third area closest to the point where the porcelain is attached to the metal jacket of the plug. The actual color may depend on type of fuel you use. This fuel ring should appear like a light shadow. Most VP C-15, C-16 or C23+ fuels will show as a light gray when correct. This fuel ring starts to color on the porcelain side that is below the ground strap and works its way around either side of the center electrode until it completely joins. Sometimes it may take two or three runs to see a good coloring. Note: New engines or engines that pump a little oil may show a thin oily line way down inside on the porcelain where the porcelain meets the metal wall of the plug. This oil line has nothing to do with the air/fuel mixture but may be confused with the fuel ring you are looking for.If you are having a hard time figuring out if what you are reading is correct or because you are not sure if the plug heat range is correct then tow the car back to the pits and drop the headers and look inside the pipes. If they are black then you are too rich, if they are light gray or white then you are too lean. The pipes should be a medium to dark gray or tan color.

Normally the white area of the porcelain has a chalky appearance. If you see the porcelain take on a shine then it is time to change the plugs because the glass that is in the porcelain has been melted and has glazed the surface. If the car has been running rich (due to lots of idling or incorrect fuel mixture) then it is possible to glaze the plugs and short them out during a run because of the sudden heating of the plug with the soot on the porcelain. This glazing appears to be a glossy coating on the porcelain with a splotches of color of greenish yellow or brown. These two different glazings will cause the plug to short out and misfire and raise ring lands or make a popping through the exhaust when going down the track.
Reading For Ignition Timing

Ignition timing is directly responsible for the heat in the combustion chamber and therefore the color of the plug’s ground strap and the color of the first few threads on the outside of the plug. The ignition timing can be checked by looking at the color of the plug’s ground strap and the position of the "blue line" on the strap. The blue line really indicates the point at which the strap has reached annealing temperature of the metal. To help to understand this think of a bar of steel (ground strap) on a table that is being super heated with a acetylene torch at one of the tip ends. As the end heats up and the heat starts moving down the bar you will see a blue line across the bar at some point down the bar away from tip with the torch. This blue line reflects the temperature that is the annealing point of the metal. As the temperature increases the blue line moves further down the bar away from the torch. Similarly, the blue line moves down the spark plug ground strap as you put more heat in the engine.

If you are using a gold colored ground strap like with an NGK spark plug then not enough timing will show the ground strap as still gold or going light gray maybe with a few bubbles on it after a run. As you advance the ignition and put heat in the engine the plug ground strap will turn darker gray as well as the metal at the end of the threaded area. As the metal turns medium to dark gray you should start looking for the blue line (band) around the ground strap. Ideally, you want this blue line to be just below where the ground strap makes the sharp bend and above the weld. If you advance the ignition too far the blue will disappear off the strap and the strap will pick up rainbow colors (blues and greens). The next step beyond that is to start melting the strap from the tip end and detonation. When you are close to the correct timing then only change the timing by one degree at a time. If you ignition system has the capability of adjusting the timing of each cylinder independently (ICT) then you can use that feature to have the blue line in the same position on all the plugs. First, adjust the basic timing to get as many of the plugs to have the blue line just at the sharp bend in the strap. Now adjust the ICT to move the blue line to the same point on the remaining plugs. Once all the plugs read the same you can advance the ignition a little at a time to put the blue line just above the weld on the strap or whatever point gives you the best performance.
Other Things To Look For

The round flat circular area of the plug at the end the threads should be dark gray or flat black and should not be sooty. If it is sooty then it can mean that your plug has not been tightened enough and you are sucking and blowing fuel and air past the threads of the plug.

Detonation shows up on the plugs as spotting on the porcelain. There are two different types of spotting seen. One type appears as just black spots and the other appears as little bright spots like diamonds. The black spots (look like pepper sprinkled on the plug) indicate a little too much heat on the plug which causes detonation by having the heated plug fire off the mixture prior to the spark firing. This creates two flame fronts that collide and can cause great amounts of damage. If you see black spots on the porcelain and you know the tune-up is correct then you may need a colder plug. If you are not sure then increase the carburetor jet size slightly, take out some timing, or go to a colder plug. If you hold the plug in the sun and you see what appears to be small diamonds on the porcelain then your detonation is severe enough to be blowing off the aluminum from your piston and you need to add fuel and/or take out timing now.
Spark Plug Heat Range

If you keep on adding timing until your finish MPH falls off but you still have no color on the plug’s ground strap but the porcelain has good color then your plug is too cold.

If you have lots of color on the ground strap but the porcelain is clean and white then the plug heat range is too hot. The heat from the plug is cleaning of the fuel ring from the porcelain.

Last edited by 1936FordPU; Apr 17, 2007 at 08:22 PM.
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 08:23 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by GueSS Who
The wideband was telling us it was way rich also but the plugs didn't show that. I will be running TR9s or 10s when I go to the track. I will be more then safe with this setup. We will be pulling alittle fuel out of some of the cylinders with the BS3 where the EGTs showed to be to colder. We are going to try and get all cylinders really close together while going down track now that we have a close tune. Everyone on here please realize that I am not just trying to make a big number. I am really trying for big ET numbers. The car weighs 3K with me in it.....We are hoping for soem 5.4xs on one stage. That should damn near beat the record on one stage. Then I have another one for alittle extra. I will probably end up not spraying another 300 but rather 200 and pray to God it lives. Should make the 1K mark but who knows. This is not my first rodeo but this **** is not easy or everyone would be doing it. There are alot of people that talk **** but it really boils down to who can really do and keep doing it.
Where do you buy these TR9's or 10's you speak of. Might want to change your vocabulary to just NGK 9's or 10's. NGK doesnt make a TR series plug that cold
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by GueSS Who
The wideband was telling us it was way rich also but the plugs didn't show that. I will be running TR9s or 10s when I go to the track. I will be more then safe with this setup. We will be pulling alittle fuel out of some of the cylinders with the BS3 where the EGTs showed to be to colder. We are going to try and get all cylinders really close together while going down track now that we have a close tune. Everyone on here please realize that I am not just trying to make a big number. I am really trying for big ET numbers. The car weighs 3K with me in it.....We are hoping for soem 5.4xs on one stage. That should damn near beat the record on one stage. Then I have another one for alittle extra. I will probably end up not spraying another 300 but rather 200 and pray to God it lives. Should make the 1K mark but who knows. This is not my first rodeo but this **** is not easy or everyone would be doing it. There are alot of people that talk **** but it really boils down to who can really do and keep doing it.
What EGT'
s are you shooting for anyways? 700-1000 is ideal. less is too cold and more is ready to melt parts. EGT probes do you no good if you dont use them correctly.
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 09:10 PM
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great info....
subscribed.
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 10:45 PM
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I think GueSS was just using the generic term and didn't really mean "TR"s as he was running the BF7s on the initial pulls.

For anyone who wants to really check their plugs, a lighted magnifier is the only way. I have a 10x which is what all suggest, but used a 30x of a friends and WOW can you really see what's going on at the porcelein base. I just found out where to get one of those and put in a rush order. The first time you see an aluminum ball with that it looks like a basketball

Devon - I should be able to offer some help. I'll probably end up using DH4 as purely a testing/nitrous tune session for my car as I've made some changes that still need some work.

GueSS - Are you still running the 1/8th? It will be interesting to see what it does out the back. Amen about it not being easy, especially to get it to hold down the heads pass after pass. I'm just working on my car to see how far I can go on the 32 jet for now. I've got a second kit but that's not where I need to be right now. For me, it's about consistancy of going rounds for the heads up stuff I race in.
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by GueSS Who
The wideband was telling us it was way rich also but the plugs didn't show that. I will be running TR9s or 10s when I go to the track. I will be more then safe with this setup. We will be pulling alittle fuel out of some of the cylinders with the BS3 where the EGTs showed to be to colder. We are going to try and get all cylinders really close together while going down track now that we have a close tune. Everyone on here please realize that I am not just trying to make a big number. I am really trying for big ET numbers. The car weighs 3K with me in it.....We are hoping for soem 5.4xs on one stage. That should damn near beat the record on one stage. Then I have another one for alittle extra. I will probably end up not spraying another 300 but rather 200 and pray to God it lives. Should make the 1K mark but who knows. This is not my first rodeo but this **** is not easy or everyone would be doing it. There are alot of people that talk **** but it really boils down to who can really do and keep doing it.
amen to that!

Eric,

Where to get the plug reader? i have been meaning to get one for a while now.

Last edited by taner; Apr 17, 2007 at 11:16 PM.
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 1936FordPU
What EGT'
s are you shooting for anyways? 700-1000 is ideal. less is too cold and more is ready to melt parts. EGT probes do you no good if you dont use them correctly.

700-1000????? Serious? I would think you want to see 1200's easy, otherwise your leaving ALOT on the table!
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Old Apr 18, 2007 | 06:57 AM
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Taner,

I sent you a PM with the info.
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Old Apr 18, 2007 | 09:02 AM
  #36  
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Should run good CJ. Look forward to seeing the #s. My car went 8s making the exact same power at the wheels on a 300shot. I know you have a few hundred pounds on me (3100 with me in it), so it should really haul ***!!

We need an F-body to keep up with Paco's LSx Mustang Think you or Icon's Formula might be the ones who are going to.

I also ran NGK 8's gapped at 24. I had 21* of timing on the 300shot. I always kept the fuel pressure a little on the high side for safety so I never really leaned on her at all.
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Old Apr 18, 2007 | 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Powell
Should run good CJ. Look forward to seeing the #s. My car went 8s making the exact same power at the wheels on a 300shot. I know you have a few hundred pounds on me (3100 with me in it), so it should really haul ***!!

We need an F-body to keep up with Paco's LSx Mustang Think you or Icon's Formula might be the ones who are going to.

I also ran NGK 8's gapped at 24. I had 21* of timing on the 300shot. I always kept the fuel pressure a little on the high side for safety so I never really leaned on her at all.
Wow, what's everyone else gapping their plugs at, i'm runnin my 8's gapped at 32, is that too much?
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Old Apr 18, 2007 | 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by next
Taner,

I sent you a PM with the info.
hit me with this info to if you would please.
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Old Apr 18, 2007 | 10:15 AM
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I run r5671a-8(4554 stock #)for 250 shot or less, and r5671a-9(5238) or r5671a-10(5820)for larger shots.
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Old Apr 18, 2007 | 10:16 AM
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I gap them at .025
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