exactly

 

ok so i read threw all off it.
going to what 383said about pulling timing.
it takes the iat reading and used the stock table for it?
if your using a plate the iat wont change, right?

what the most timing it can pull on a ls1 car?

 

If running our dry plate you would still use the timing retard function of the Interface, and yes that is the way it works. The amount of timing to be pulled is only limited by how the IAT table is set up.

Matt

 

so it pulls timing based off intake air temps?

 

Yes. That way you can actually see the timing being pulled if you are using a scan tool. If you use a controller that modifies the crank position sensor you wonlt be able to see it being pulled via a scan tool. It's nice to actually see it working instead of keeping your fingers crossed.

Matt

 

LS1 3 pin

 

Thank you, I thought that was a three pin setup. That's what I plan on running on my formula. I plan on converting to a 99 pcm setup, using a 100mm maf, and a 105mm accufab throttle body. In order to use that throttle body with the stock pcm you have to use a ford tps sensor and an IAC adapter. Would using a ford TPS sensor or the IAC adapter have any effect on the interface?

 

One thing for clarification...correct me if I am wrong please on the timing portion for the IAT setup in your setup VS a CPS style.

On yours its appears you are incorporating an inline resistor that changes the "temp" the computer sees when nitrous is activated. So if you logged IAT you would go from whatever actual temp the car would be reading from the air traveling thru the intake to a very high reading...say 150 degrees upon nitrous activation. This would trick the computer into pulling as much timing as possible within the scope of the stock tune. Maybe 4-5 degrees or so. The bad part about that is if you are running around in summer...and its 85 degrees out already...you may only get 1-2 degrees of timing pulled because the ambient temp is already quite high. In other words it appears the timing that is pulled is dependant on what your ambiant temps are to begin with and restriced by the narrow range of timing options within the stock program? is that correct or am I missing something?

The CPS style like the timing tuner will pull whatever is set 0-20 or whatever...OVER what the computer has called out for in those conditions. So if its 85 degrees out and the stock PCM is calling for 24 degrees and you want to pull 10 degrees with the TT..you will end up with 14 degrees. But of course you cant SEE that. But it does have a very wide range of timing that can be pulled.

On yours if its 85 degrees already...you may only get 1-2 degrees max?

Now if you get some sort of HP tuners...you should be able to change that IAT table to pull exactly what you want...AND see it? But you need HP tuners..or have a tuner do that for you?


If I am not correct....please correct me. If not...this should be pointed out. I saw several guys say they wanted this strictly for the timing portion and I dont think they realize that unless they get HP tuners...or have a tuner change the IAT/timing setup with tuning software.....they may be limited to 3-5 degree of timing retard in cold weather or maybe 1-2 degrees in hot weather when they where expecting 6-8-10-12+ degrees of retard without buying HP tuners.

Now I am NOT bashing this setup. hell...for the fueling portion alone its worth the price and can definately be a useful tool for many.

If I am wrong...my apologies. I have been asked a few times about the timing portion of this unit and was only able to speculate. So please help me understand this timing control.

 

Yes and no, yes, timing is pulled via the IAT. The amount of timing to be pulled on a "stock" tune is dependent on the year/platform that the Interface is being used on. For instance a LS1 GTO can pull up to 8 while the LT1 can pull up to 12. And correct again, if you need to pull more then what you can on the stock file then you can have the IAT table set up how ever you like, this could be done at the same time as scaling the fuel injectors.

Here is a good example, let's say that you are seeing 104 IAT intake temps, that is the starting point in 95% of the platforms the Interface supports that timing is stating to be pulled, and that is at 1 degree. Anything over 104 is pretty hot, anything under and no timing is pulled. So you have the PCM set to 30 degrees at WOT NA. You have the Interface set to pull 6 degrees. The IAT is at 104. At WOT with the N2O activated you will still see 24 degrees of total timing, which is what you set the Interface to pull.

So what ever you program the Interface for is what gets pulled when the N2O system is activated.


The above is 100% INCORRECT. Again, what ever you program the Interface to pull it pulls, hot temps or cold temps. If you don't have a firm grasp on how The Interface operates any questions you receive from users should be sent to us.

Matt

 

Ok...if I am reading your response correctly...when you hook up the interface...it will "control" the IAT temps even during NA operation...basically "fixing" IAT temps at a specific point so that the car has MAX timing NA at all times until you activate the juice.....then it will throw out the corresponding IAT temp to correlate to the desired amount of retard.

 

Incorrect, it does not effect the IAT N/A.

Matt

 

well then now I am really lost....lol

If you have a stock computer...and you are using IAT to adjust timing. And the stock computer has a specific range of say 8 degrees based on the IAT the computer sees.

You would have either one of two scenarios

You are either adding IAT from the actaul IAT the car is reading ( such as actual 85 degrees and then making it step to 150 of something) in which case you would only have a smaller range since 85 is your start point and some amount of timing would be already pulled due to the 85 degrees.

Or...if you were to hold the start IAT temp at say 32 degrees or some point where it has the most timing on motor....then dial in the corrsponding iAT that correlates to a certain amount of retard.

In this way it would have max timing NA like the IAT timing tricker...and then pull timing as the interface makes the computer see different IATs?

I am not bashing here. I am trying to discuss what this thing can do and cant do. I am not sure why you are being so vague.

Maybe if you exlain in detail it will uncover an easy way to duplicate the product? If so then just say so. I am not trying to make you give away trade secrets.

But IAt only has so many options and I am having a hard time grasping how this can be different.

And if you tell me end of dicsussion because you feel I am prodding where I shouldnt be...then you can say that too and I will respect that. But it seems helping us understand its function would be best.

I apologize for so many damn questions...but thats my nature...lol.

 

I won't get into any more detail of the inner workings of the Interface, sorry. To be honest with you it doesn’t help that you are a former Nitrous Outlet employee and that you’re a consultant for other nitrous manufactures. But reading your below post makes it seem that you don't have a good grasp of the PCM. You do understand that at 85 degrees there is no timing pulled, correct?

Matt

 

85 degrees was just an arbitrary number. At some points in the stock tune...depending on ambient conditions...there will be timing pulled at WOT. I just threw 85 out there. If you think timing at WOT stays flat for all ambient conditions that would be incorrect. What would be the need for an IAT at that point?
The main reason I ask is because I ran the IAT set up on my car several years back and on hot days I would notice that i could only get 1-2 degrees of timing retard at WOT on those days. I have been racking my brain trying to figure out how you got around this....or if maybe you hadnt thought about the varying conditions with an IAT controller?

And stop making this about NO and HSW. My question was direct to you about the function of your product. we have never been in a pissing match before...so please dont make this one.

If you feel you dont need to answer thats fine. My apologies for even asking.

 

keep it clean boys.

 

Al, my appologies if you cannot follow how the timing is pulled. I think Matt has been more than fair in his answering of your questions.

At no point in Matt's post has he said that timing is not pulled at WOT. He even stated that timing is pulled at 104* for most platforms. The Interface is designed to follow the timing map laid out in the tables. If you command 6 degrees of retard, you get 6 degrees pulled (it follows whatever you have programed for your timing curve). What more don't you understand about that?

Its not a HSW/NO issue. Its a Al/HSW issue. Being that you personally have worked for multiple nitrous companies in the past and have helped develop parts for these companies, you have to understand why I won't give you the keys to our house when asking for the blue prints.

I think it has been explained very well in this entire thread "how the Interface works". Both the MAF and timing have been thoroughly gone over. You seem to understand how the MAF portion works, but why the big hang up on the timing?

Let me make this very clear. The Interface is much more complex then your "resistor mod". Please do not compare the two as they are entirely different. If something does not work for you, how does that equate to our product not working?

 

Ok..you dont have to give me the "keys". Just answer these question and you will probably satisfy my curiousity.

On an 99 F body what is the MAX range of timing pull available with IAT?

If said F body was racing with an ambient temp of 40 degrees...what would the max retard be available to that car for nitrous?

If said F body was cruising on a hot florida day with ambient temps at 104 what would be the max amount of retard available.

Your unit hook to the MAF and the IAT. Your using MAF for fuel and IAT for something. So its logical to conclude you are using the IAT to attampt timing control.

Again...stop this at any time. Your reply with more info leads me to more questions. I am just not seeing it. And No I dont want to copy it...lol. It would be cheaper for me to just buy one from you.

Hell I stated the fueling portion is worth the price alone. I am just having a hard time grasping the IAT and timing.

Now please keep in mind you already stated that to increase the amount of timing available with HP tuners your will use the IAt method. So how is that different?

I am sure you can atleast see my confusion here?

 

haha I was gonna say if you're going to copy it at least buy it from me .

I think we've tried complicated responses and its not working. So let me keep it simple

1) 3-4 stock. Infinate for modified table.

2) 6

3) 6

4) Duh, stated numerous times.

5) That's why I'm keeping it simple.

6) Yes it is very well worth the money! I hope this helps some.

7) Don't follow you.

Al, don't take this personally...but I think you've asked these questions at least once in this thread already. I'm 100% sorry that you cannot grasp this, but also please understand that it is not my job to help a competitor understand the inner working of this product. Thanks.

Nick

 

Ok...now we are getting to the point of my problem. In one you say the max available swing that can be had using IAT is 3-4

but in the very next question you say you can get 6?

This is the source of the confusion

 

Oops, sorry let me re-type that...its been a very long day.

2)3-4 stock and infinate modified table

3)3-4 stock and infinate modified table

I hope that makes a little more sense?

Nick