Z-RATED94

iTrader: (6)

I have purchased a nano system for this spring. Would running the bottle heater I already have make the Nano system bottle last any longer?

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

Not a stupid question. In theory it would make it last longer.....but barely so. The reason the heater works so well with nitrous is because its a liquid and the heat causes it to "boil off" more gas. Its the increase in gas volume that raises the bottle pressure.

With NANO you are either using compressed air or nitrogen. Heat with compressed air will certainly raise the pressure some as per Boyles lay. But maybe 100-200 psi.

If you use nitrogen it would be much less since nitrogen is less reactive to thermal expansion. Thats why its used in airplane tires.

If you already have a heater hooked up and arent going to remove it...slap it on the nano bottle when its installed and test it out. Be sure to monitor the NANO presssure so you dont exceed the bottle design limits. Or maybe turn the heater on once you have used up a few hundred PSI of the NANA and turn th eheater on to see how much of an increase you will get. Then do the same test...but keep the heater on the nitrous bottle.

If it were me...I would probably keep the heater around for when you are running low on NANO pressure and maybe need a small boost to get you thru that last race...lol.

Beer99C5

iTrader: (21)

I am going NANO this spring also, I plan on NANO at the Track, and when trolling looking for trouble around the roads, just using the heater on the bottle. I should have some Bottle pressure logs w/ NANO once I get the system running.

Nick@HSW

iTrader: (4)

This is a pretty important statement Al, could you perhaps elaborate on it a little more for the average user? Concerning Boyle's Law. Thanks.

Nick

Rick@HSW

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

LOL...why sure I can. I stated Boyles law...but the actual question can also be related to the "Combined Gas Law". Which includes Boyles law, Charles law and others. The Combined Gas law predicts behavior of gases...including changes in temp, where Charles law and boyles law talk about volume and pressure where temp is constant. But they are all inter related.
Basically all the avg user needs to know is that where volume and mass amount are constant...when temperature is increased..pressure increases as well. If we knew the exact temps involved we would be able to predict the temp rise of the NANO bottle from T1 to T2 as long as volume and mass remained the same. That relationship is a constant...but uses the Kelvin scale of temperature. You cant use F or C unless you convert it to K. But predicting or measuring the actual avg temp of the NANO bottle would prove difficult due to thermal loss and the large area and volume of the bottle.

So the easiest way is for the original poster to check with real world tests to see what the actual rise in pressure of the NANO bottle would be with a heater attached. There is quite a bit of mass in a bottle that size with compressed air at that pressure. Additional heat may increase the pressure substantially. Substantial enough to warrant keeping a heater? Thats the question.

If it were me...I would keep the heater and try it out. Just be careful to ensure you do not exceed the pressure limits of the NANO bottle.

Z-RATED94

iTrader: (6)

Thanks for your reply. I really wasn't thinking about putting it on the NANO bottle. Just leave the heater on the nitrous bottle in hopes that once the pressure is up the NANO bottle would last longer.
Does this make sense, Nano bottle is off, turn the heater on to build pressure in the nitrous bottle. Once the bottle is up to pressure, turn the NANO bottle on and now it doesn't have to work as hard to keep the nitrous bottle at the right pressure. Thanks again, Rick.

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

If the heater raises the NANO bottle pressure at all I would leave it on that one.
The only reason I say this is because if you have it on your nitrous bottle...you could turn it on to help raise it up to the set pressure...say 1050 psi. At this point you havent activated the NANO. You do in fact save some NANO air at this point. But then you spray your way down the track...and NANO will assist throughout the run. Once you are back in the pits..or driving around....NANO will have left the nitrous bottle pressure at the set pressure of 1050 psi. Unless you turn the heater off at that point...it will raise the pressure above 1050 psi.

Now if you have a pressure operated heater...and get the set pressure of the heater pressure switch exactly the same as the NANO set pressure that would work....and defiantely save some NANO air..not much..but a little.



Or just leave your heater on the nitrous bottle...but inactive until NANO is almost out..then turn on the heater like you normally would. But if NANO is almost out...it will run out of assist pressure during a run...and the heater isnt going to do anything for you at that point DURING the run like NANO does.

So yeah...there is multiple ways I could see the heater being of use...especially us street guys that are always out and about sometimes unprepared.


Really..once you get it...try it out in different combos and let us know which seems to work best for you.

Youll love the pressure assist setup.

Z-RATED94

iTrader: (6)

I am running a pressure switch for the bottle heater. Thanks again for your help.

Nick@HSW

iTrader: (4)

LOL no need to flip me the birdie…

Boyle’s law states delta T must = 0. Without a doubt in the above scenario T1 does not equal T2 with heat energy being passed into the system. When T1 does not equal T2, nRT1 does not equal nRT2 therefore its simply not true that P1V1=P2V2.

You are somewhat correct in your second address at the issue. One must revert back to Combined Gas Law. Only then can you address non-constant Pressure, Volume and Temperature. If V1=V2, you can simply use the Guy-Lussac Law.

I’m not arguing with you and if you take it that way my apologies. I saw you were trying to apply a Law that simply would not apply. Yes I think you would have realized it as soon as you started doing the math that T1 and T2 need to be taken into consideration, but if someone believed you, they might not know and the equation would be bogus and P2 would be far higher than what they realized. I think it’s important for the average user to understand the physics behind what they’re using rather than just testing blindly. This is the exact method we follow when testing new products. Everything needs to be considered! Again, no disrespect.

Nick

Nick@HSW

iTrader: (4)

I agree 100% with this statement right here. Leave the heater in the car as an auxillary unit. Al pointed out its downfalls but I think this would be the more wiser choice, just my opinion.

Nick

sleeperstyle

iTrader: (4)

i was going to try and piece together a nitrogen-push system last season, never got around to it and now with the nano system out it seems like the best option.

if you look on their website using the universal nano kit, if you leave the bottle heater right where it is it'll heat the bottle and probably heat up the nitrogen bottle as well since it sits right on top of the n20 bottle

like mentioned also if you run out of nitrogen and want to race the car, you'll be happy you kept the heater. i plan on keeping it and using both when needed.

caliswangin916

iTrader: (3)

wouldn't the nitrogen be virtually the last to exit the nitrous bottle. so if you're out of nitrogen, chances are that you have very little nitrous left in the bottle to spray even if the heater could get it up to temp. unless you started with say a 25% filled nano and a full bottle.
3-4lbs of nitrous in a bottle with the heater up to psi/temp isn't even really worth spraying. so you're **** out of luck?

Z-RATED94

iTrader: (6)

My point of the question is, if I left the heater on the nitrous bottle, wouldn't the Nano bottle last longer? If the Nitrous bottle is up to pressure from the heater, how much air would I really be using from the pusher?

caliswangin916

iTrader: (3)

my imagination tells me that if the heater were off and bottle psi is at 600, then the nano would have filled the nitrous bottle to get it up to pressure. so by the time the heater is turned on, it's too late some nano nitrogen would have made its way to the nitrous bottle.
----well...unless...you had the nano closed to the nitrous bottle. heater on to get psi up and then opened the nano. too much trouble in my opinion.

going down the track or road and spraying with the heater on and nano open and psi at 950-----once the pressure drops, the heater won't be able maintain the psi thus allowing the nano to add nitrogen to the nitrous bottle, thus again tooooolate!!!!???

another thing i don't like the about my auto heater was when the nitrous was low at about 4-5lbs, my bottle would have to be extremely hot to touch on the outside for the psi to be up around 950-1050psi.

Blackbirdws6

iTrader: (7)

Cmon now, I was done with engineering school a couple years ago...dont bring me back! Good info there. I may keep my heater to assist when the Nano starts getting low however that shouldn't be too often.

-brian

caviness

iTrader: (14)

i see what you are saying,turn heater on bring n2o bottle up to presure then turn heater of and use the nano to make the pass,then in the pits waiting for next round heat the nitrous while the nano is off so bottle presure it back up then when ready for run turn nano back on again,i dont think you will save that much nano,but sounds interesting?