How to decrease my lean condition on the initial hit?

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Apr 30, 2008 | 05:07 PM

#21

SY732

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From: Vegas

Quote:

Originally Posted by b00sted

purge both the nitrous and the fuel before the run. I used to spray the kit for a few seconds rolling out of the burnout. That way the fuel and nitrous is at the solenoids and ready to go. No lean spike.

LOL no need anytime the car/fuel pump is running the fuel is sitting right at the noid think about it LOL

Anyway the line may not be 6' but it is long because of where I mounted my noids. and the leangth of the feed line has nothing to do with my quick lean spike the extra volume actually helps.

BTW the lines that come with the kit are 2'

Can I see your HPtuners and logworks files on a 150 shot, how much shorter is your fuel line vs N20 line?

Apr 30, 2008 | 06:38 PM

#22

Robert56

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From: Tacoma, WA

Quote:

Originally Posted by SY732

You have it wrong, the extra length or volume as you call it actually hurts ya where the lean spike is concerned. I explained this earlier, it takes time for the reg at the tank to sense a need for more fuel, and more time to get it changed. Now if you lengthen the line to the reg you have made matters worse, the travel time has been extended. Fuel line should be as short as possible. here is mine, notice the noid is right on the rail, then the line to the nozzle is as short as can be. try it, you'll like it, lol.
Robert

Apr 30, 2008 | 10:21 PM

#23

SY732

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From: Vegas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert56

I had it like that it was worse, but the lines to the plate were the same lenght, maybe there was somthing else going on or I am crazy or the C6 fuel system is differnt???

Last edited by SY732; Apr 30, 2008 at 10:27 PM.

Apr 30, 2008 | 10:27 PM

#24

BOTTLEFEDLS1Z

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From: STL

Quote:

Originally Posted by SY732

Plugs look good to me and no bad smoke.

But I have fuel rail covers that keep the heat in, I never had a problem with them removed.

I have a 6' feed line from the rail to the fuel noid thought that would be enough extra volume?

How can I test if it is lack of pressure vs length of the lines?

I would love a stand alone but I dont want to cut the car up, and its $$$ for the C6.

If I ran a stand alone what octane would I need with 91 in the main tank?

Harris Speedworks and Nitro Daves make stand alone's. I used to run a Harris Speed Works set-up with 110 in the stand alone and 93 in the tank

Apr 30, 2008 | 11:14 PM

#25

SY732

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From: Vegas

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOTTLEFEDLS1Z

Harris Speedworks and Nitro Daves make stand alone's. I used to run a Harris Speed Works set-up with 110 in the stand alone and 93 in the tank

HSW has one for the C6?

May 1, 2008 | 06:42 PM

#26

Robert56

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From: Tacoma, WA

Quote:

Originally Posted by SY732

I had it like that it was worse, but the lines to the plate were the same lenght, maybe there was somthing else going on or I am crazy or the C6 fuel system is differnt???

Well I will have to trust that in your case the extra length helped, why, I am not sure? Normally it makes matters worse by increasing the change time. If in fact it's something to do with the C6 fuel system, and you confirm this, let me know as we need to add this to the knowledge bank.

Robert

May 2, 2008 | 12:01 AM

#27

SY732

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From: Vegas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert56

Robert

I will datalog it both ways back to back.

If the 6' line always has fuel in it why would it mattter how long it is?

Could it have been my old short fuel feed line was coiled?

May 2, 2008 | 10:55 AM

#28

LS1 BU

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From: South Elgin

I'm also having a lean activation problem with my wet kit. My nitrous line from my solenoid to plate kit is about 2 inches shorter than my fuel line. I'm moving some stuff to shorten the fuel line by 3-4 inches. If that doesn't fix it then I'm converting to dry.

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May 2, 2008 | 02:34 PM

#29

SY732

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From: Vegas

Did some more testing today

I added some lenghth to the Nitrous side and the frame by frame loks like this:

secs AFR
2.70 14.9 at cruise
2.79 13.1
2.87 12.7
2.95 12.6 its getting richer
3.03 13.0
3.11 13.6 thats the leanest it gets
3.19 12.5
3.28 11.4 Target

This was with 41/22 Jets I will test with larger jets soon

I am having another problem my progressive controller is not holding 100% in the upper RPMS think I need a better ground?

May 2, 2008 | 02:42 PM

#30

SY732

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From: Vegas

HPTuners screen shot

Log Works screen shot

May 2, 2008 | 05:23 PM

#31

Robert56

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From: Tacoma, WA

Quote:

Originally Posted by SY732

Too bad you don't have your WB logging into your HPT, it would make things easier. But, if the time frame above is correct, then a .320 sec lean spike is really nothing to be concerned about at the small shot level. Most in the industry will say, if it's under ½ second, don't worry. Well, myself, I don't like any lean spike, but the likely hood of you doing any damage is slim, unless you go big and hit it down low. Looks as though your hitting it in the upper 3xxxrpm range which is good. 13.6 is certainly to lean if it stays for any length of time. A full run would indicate the entire fuel systems capability at what ever level you log at. Going lean at the end of a run usually says we are running out of pump. Lean upon activation, then going to desired a/f is an indicator of the regulator at the tank area. If you regulator was at the rails likely there would be '0' lean spike. It's travel time for changing conditions, or rather demands of the fuel system. it just takes a bit for reg to sense new demand and then readjust. You will see this more pronounced as you go bigger with your hit size, but for now no real worry. But things like short line after the noid to the nozzle may help, it does sometimes. My system has no lean activation what so ever, but I did convert to the reg and return at the rails.
Robert

May 2, 2008 | 05:31 PM

#32

Robert56

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From: Tacoma, WA

Quote:

Originally Posted by LS1 BU

Yes, a properly set-up Dry hit will normally have zero or at the max a very, very small lean spike. Why? The injectors will compensate, because of the MAF/PCM, in micro seconds, one of the many benefits of dry tech.

Something else that can help lean spikes on activation is to make sure our WOT Fuel Multiplier or WOT Power Enrichment, is activated at an RPM slightly lower than activation RPM of the n2o system. Sometimes the WOT a/f ratio comes into effect at or later than the spray activation point, then once again the fuel system is playing catch up. IIRC, I set mine for like 3000rpm and had an activation RPM of 3400rpm, or something similar, but that way, I know for a fact that the fuel enrichment for Wide Open Throttle has already begun when the spray starts.
Robert

May 3, 2008 | 12:56 AM

#33

SY732

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From: Vegas

I wish I had HPT Pro or there was another way to log it in HPT w/ the C6

Here is an old file a 60-175mph pull on 125 shot goes from 11.5-11.3 in high gear I run it at 10.8-11.0 now

May 3, 2008 | 03:29 PM

#34

b00sted

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From: Chicago

Quote:

Originally Posted by SY732

LOL no need anytime the car/fuel pump is running the fuel is sitting right at the noid think about it LOL

No it's not. If there's air in the line, that needs to be pumped out before the fuel gets to the nozzle...It just doesn't magically disappear. That's why most of the big dog nitrous guys use a jet right before the noid with a return line to bleed off some of the fuel and allow all of the air to be purged out of the line.

Quote:

Anyway the line may not be 6' but it is long because of where I mounted my noids. and the leangth of the feed line has nothing to do with my quick lean spike the extra volume actually helps.

It has a lot to do with it.

Quote:

Can I see your HPtuners and logworks files on a 150 shot, how much shorter is your fuel line vs N20 line?

The nitrous setup I'm referring to was the plate on that carbureted black stang in my avatar. Both sides were the same length...About 5-6" from the plate. I would spray rolling out of the burnout, and then usually leave the kit armed(WOT switch) and let it spray when I revved the motor to clear the carb. By the time I did all that both the nitrous and fuel side were purged out and ready to go.

May 5, 2008 | 12:13 PM

#35

SY732

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From: Vegas

Quote:

Originally Posted by b00sted

We are talking about the line from the fuel rail to the noid there is no air in the feed line to the fuel noid there is always fuel in it the fuel rail does not magically close and let air in. the line is lower than the rail so fuel stays in it even when not pressureized. even if the was a mixture of fuel and air when I do my quick test hit/burnout it would clear.

Look at the post above and rethink what you are saying.

Without a WB you do not know if you had a lean hit your just assuming... my plugs look fine too but the WB clearly shows a lean spike that is not showning on the plugs.

May 6, 2008 | 11:06 AM

#36

SY732

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From: Vegas

Did some more testing
N20 18'------------------noid--Plate (-- = 24")
Fuel 6'------noid-Plate (- = 16")

I still get a small spike to 14 for .33

And the Progressive is working great now

I will test the short 12" fuel feed line with the same setup soon

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