Roarin_8

iTrader: (5)

I have the bubbles also on the sail panel. I'm currently staying in NYC, anyone here know of any knowledgeable dealerships in the area?

JAvenger007

iTrader: (9)

im gonna scan the pages i got of the updated bulletin and post up here. Its mostly the same info, but it does clearly state 2003. It wouldnt make sense for GM to release a 2003 bulletin regarding 1999 cars, if they only have a 3 year warranty and then turn down the repairs. Otherwise it would just concern 2002 vehicles.

BANDITCAR

here are the pics of my CE's bubble-itis afflicted areas




In this pic you can see the other bubbles under the paint that just cause a wavy-ness under the paint. These minute bubble go around the entire perimiter of the roof pillar. Everything just popped up(no pun intended) this past weekend. I cleaned the car friday and nothing. I detailed it a bit more saturday and BANG, there they were. It has been REALLY hot here lately and the body shop manager said that is probably what kicked it into high gear.

Innocent Criminal

There seems to be some confusion here. A TSB is not a recall. A recall usually relates to something safety related and is free to have fixed. A TSB doesn't create a warranty or extend a warranty. It is simply the procedure for service managers to fix recurring problems. That's why it lists 99 model cars in 2003 because those are the model years affected by the problem, and not that those are the years that they will fix it free. The service manager needs to know how to fix a 99 if it comes in the same as if a 02 under warranty comes in.

Actually, Edmunds can say it better than I can: "These bulletins differ from recalls in that they are not considered safety or emissions issues and they usually apply only when your vehicle is in its warranty period (whereas a recall is "open" until the work has been performed). TSBs frequently (but not always) address a recurring problem and include illustrated instructions for repair, a list of the parts needed, the warranty status and the labor charge."

http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/tir...5/article.html

Basically, it appears to be up to the district rep at this point, which is totally ridiculous. I would suggest that everyone make their own calls to GM customer service and the district reps rather than a dealership. A dealership really isn't going to argue for your interests, now is he? Everyone should have those numbers ready even before talking to the dealer, so if the dealer is a *****, you can call them right on the spot before the dealer can call them and those two decide how to handle it w/o your involvement.

Yeah, you're right that it doesn't hurt, but I've had all my service work done at the dealer since I bought it new and I've brought it up before to them. Right now there is no hint of any bubbles and there is nothing further to really inform them about. Either it's there now or it's not. But believe me, if they do pop up down the road, and they give me hassle about it, I will get it fixed free, if its the last thing I ever do. Nonsense like this really pisses me off.

Right now does anybody know if anybody took this problem to a dealer to have fixed in '01 or '02 while these cars were still being built. . .being built that is apparently with the wrong type of glue?

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Oh, I see now, you don't have any bubbles. I thought you said you did have the bubbles, but had not yet said anything. My mistake. I guess I assumed everyone on this thread had the problem. My bad.

JAvenger007

iTrader: (9)

GM releases a service bulletin in 03 regarding 99 vehicles which are ALL out of warranty, and basically saying "we messed up at the factory", heres a $2000 bill you need to pay to have your roof look decent. So unbelievable.

What has everyone been saying to customer service reps? And who can I email and what do i say. I dont want to just send off a fit of rage, I want facts and stats that I can shove in their face. For example, I want to tell them about the numerous people on here getting a fair treatment and getting it fixed. This is a HUGE fix. $2000 for a vehicle meticulously cared for. 6 years is NOT old for a car, so i shouldnt be doing MAJOR body work this early. Sorry this is just insane. Innocent Criminal, I understand how the service bulletins work, i just feel like some form of neglegence is present. We should be entitled to the fix for at least 6 years.

Did ANYONE know about this service bulletin when it was released in 03? and how many actually went to get the repairs?

Haans249

iTrader: (24)

i'm not sure if this will make any difference, but I just tried taking it yesterday....and they told me that my district service rep, who is the only one who can authorize the work, denied me straight up saying that it is out of warranty.

I just found this, although its from 1993.....but honestly, if the service rep can't find anything newer stating otherwise...shouldn't he have to do that work?!

http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=99&did=727

JAvenger007

iTrader: (9)

Haans good find, kind of sums up the other autosafety report (page 1 of this thread) more clearly.

"TSB is just for the people who have problems under warranty". Spork, ask the customer service rep if TSBs are for warranty vehicles then why did GM issue one in 2003 concerning 1999 vehicles. Service bulletins and recalls ARE available to the public. She is clearly talking her way out with nonsense. Check out the autosafety reports and spit them back at her.

Innocent Criminal

This is just too good. We aren't supposed to look at the TSB, but we are supposed to look at the bubbles though, huh? Typical arrogant corporate bs. It is obvious to anyone with even an ounce of common sense that this is not a "paint" problem but is a negligent manufacturing process that happens to manifest its damage in the paint years after it was sold. The TSB is evidence of GM's knowledge of its problem, but notice how they used language in it like "customers may complain that there are bubbles in the paint on the roof," like it has nothing to do with them. It looks like it is going to take a court judgment to change their minds otherwise.

The 93 statement is great. Use it. It doesn't have any expiration date, but I would research the circumstances that caused it first just so you know and can argue why it should apply here. I think it had something to do with acid rain or something or GM using questionable paint, or litigation, I don't remember.

In the meantime, I beg everybody who has gotten hosed to email or contact 60 Minutes, Dateline and 20/20 or who ever you want with a short story and pics. They love this stuff, and short of litigation, it may be one way to get a global remedy. This is not something anyone buying a car anticipates happening later through no fault of their own, like the alternator bearings wearing out for example. Make GM look like a fool.

Innocent Criminal

Actually, you should also contact whichever government agency oversees vehicle safety. Is it the national highway safety admin? Anybody know? Send them some pics and say you are worried that the glue has weakened your roof. Maybe the glue weakens over time and this is actually a safety issue which would require a recall.

JAvenger007

iTrader: (9)

haha i like your thinking. I agree with dateline ect. Im considering making a thread for all to list briefly the extent of their damage and when they noticed it for news to view. Imagine 100s of Fbod owners from here claiming the defect. SOMEBODYs gotta be able to make a story out of it. What would GM argue back?

Innocent Criminal

Excellent idea about a separate damage thread. An entire website would be better though: fbodyroofbubbles.com. lol How about it tech boys?

GM has nothing to argue. Reporter/lawyer: So why is it when a customer comes in with bubbles in his roof paint that you just don't repaint it but instead advise your service managers to remove the entire roof and then use a different glue? Doesn't this evidence a manufacturing defect under the paint instead of a simple paint problem? GM: well, um, uh. Can I have a cigerette break?

They just prey on the fact that no one victim has the resources to prove this with experts, etc. There is strength in numbers though, and the government and media can be a tremendous help.

Haans249

iTrader: (24)

Hey guys, go back to the CAS website, and then submit a complaint about this, and at the end, check that you want to join a class action law suit. I'm sure if we get enough people to do this, we'll jump start something.

http://www.autosafety.org/fileacomplaint.php

Thanks!
Haans

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

This problem would be called a "latent defect" meaning it takes time for it to show itself.

BANDITCAR

Should we check the box for "paint" or "body/frame" and then should we all type the same thing in the problem description box?

lets all get together on this and do it right..yeah!

Haans249

iTrader: (24)

Check the box for Paint, its not so much a body/frame problem....Everyone keep sending in the complaints!

Haans249

iTrader: (24)

Oh, and definitely type in your description of the problem, and mention the TSB in your complaint...It doesn't have to all be the exact same thing, just has to show that its all the same latent defect..

2000RedZ

iTrader: (62)

I took my car down to my local dealer and he said that my warrenty is up so they won't do it for free, but i know him, so he said he might be able to do something about the price. Is there any way i can get it done for free like a lot of other people have. I have a 2000 Camaro Z28 w/ 88000mi

00T\A

Took mine to the dealer yesterday,an the service mgr said the usual that my warranty had expired but he would get in touch with GM an see what they say.
Called him today an he said he has nothing heard nothing yet so i don't know what is going to happen.
My car is five years old an has 52xxxx miles.

AnimalSS

iTrader: (1)

I'm in the same boat as you, Mike. Mine is a '00 (same miles) but, I bought it in '01. I took it to a Chevy Dealer body shop a few months ago when I first saw this thread. They told me that GM wouldn't fix it. And I actually have personal relationships with the people at this body shop. They've fixed stuff for me before at no charge that they probably shouldn't have. I've got bubbles poppin' up all over mine. Some of them are even oozing glue! My buddy told me he could get one of the body shop guys to fix it, off the clock, for about $150. Which, I'll probably do when I have the extra cash because some ******* keyed it on the passenger's side a while back.

Anyway, if somebody figures out a loophole to getting these things fixed at GM's cost, please post it!!