RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I know we have the sticky in this section about the roof paint bubbling issue, but this thread is intended to discuss the trigger of the problem, rather than just the problem (or repair) itself.

As we all know, many of the ’99-’02 F-bodies have this issue (roof paint bubbling). Some ’98s do as well, but it’s much more rare for that model year in my experience. And we all know that the cause is the adhesive GM used to attach the roof on some or possibily many of these cars.

So my question is, what is the real trigger of this issue? Is it just age? Or heat/time in the sun? Or a combo of both? Is there a certain point at which if it hasn’t happened, it’s not going to happen? I wonder because it seems that some people have seen this issue once the car was just 3 years old, even if it’s a low mileage/non-daily driven car.

The main reason for my concern is because I’m looking at an extremely low mileage ’02 Camaro (5k miles) that currently does NOT have the issue. But I’m wondering if that’s just because the car has seen such little use, or if it’s at an age now where if it was going to happen, it would’ve already happened. Basically, is there a point (age wise) where the car is “safe” from the issue? I’m pretty sure my ’98 will never develop this, since its 10 years old now and doesn’t have any signs of it. However, my current ’02 car DOES have the issue (just 2-3 tiny bubbles so far), but it’s got a lot more mileage (and sun exposure) than the other ’02 car I’m looking at to buy.

mattl31

iTrader: (8)

man i think its hard to say. my car was garaged its entire life (2001 with 48000 miles) and didnt have them when i bought it with 47000 miles. in the last 1000 miles it has gone from having absolutely none to having probably 30-40 of them. usually they are way worse in the summer. so im assuming that the gas release could be due to climate rather than age. but who knows?

black01_WS6

iTrader: (13)

Mine has been sitting in my garage for the past year, and I have gotten more bubbles inside that I got when the car sat in the south florida heat.

All I know is once it starts it goes very quickly to the rest of the panel.

I don't think we will every know- there is probably too many variables to consider.

loyolacub68

iTrader: (16)

RPMWS6,

I do not believe you could ever say for sure that the car is safe after a certain amount of time/mileage. I also do not think that the environmental conditions dictate when the problem will occur.

For example, my car developed the problem soon after I bought it with a hair over 24,000 miles. The car was kept mostly outside in southern california. My car now has over 55,000 miles and if anything the problem has gotten worse and developed more quickly with age.

On the other hand, I have read in the sticky some people have had this happen to their garage queens. Very low mileage cars that see very little of the outside environment are still coming down with this problem.

On my car I can now see bubbles around all edges of the roof, probably in the exact places where the glue was applied. Some colors of Camaro's seem to have a less likely chance of developing the problem, probably having something to do with the amount of sunlight absorbed and the physical properties of the paint. In addition, I also have the luxury of having glue seeping out of the holes in my roof. The latter problem is infuriating when trying to keep the car clean.

Probably the best course of action would be to find a low mileage car that DOES have the problem. It seems like low mileage cars (under 36k) are a lot more likely to have the problem fixed by GM. I myself, have taken this to an arbitrator with the BBB trying to argue the fact that GM was aware of the problem but never revealed it to customers who could have had it fixed under warranty. I knew I had some chips in the paint in 2005 with 24,000 miles but never dreamed it was something like this. It was not until I came onto this website 2 years later that I discovered the problem, now I am paying the price. GM has been adamant in denying my claim and only an appeal to the BBB got the ball rolling for me. I am now awaiting the word from the arbitrator on whether or not GM must fix the problem. I wish I had known in 2005 that this was the problem, I would have brought it in immediately.

What I really need are some neighborhood kids to come by and bash my roof with a bat or something so I can claim it on the insurance. Those guys are a hell of a lot easier to deal with than the cronies at GM. You should have heard some of the BS that GM rep was spewing.

And to answer your question as to the trigger? I don't think you can name one. I believe it depends on the application of the glue at the time the car was built. It seems very random how people develop the problem.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Honestly, I'm not as worried about the money involved as I am the quality of the repair. If I were to buy that 5k mile Camaro (it's a hardtop car BTW, so it's a much bigger job and more costly than t-top cars), it's purpose would be mainly as a points judged show car. I'd like to bill the car as having original paint, plus I want the roof panel fitment to be as good as stock. Sadly, I've seen some pretty poor aftermath in terms of roof fitment on some of the repaired cars. I can't say that I know of any local body shops that I trust 100% for this sort of job. Not like were talking a simple repaint here.


I agree about the randomness. My '98 is a low mileage garage queen (14k miles), but it's seen a fair amount of hot sunny days, like sitting all day in full sun at car shows, etc. Plus all the driving it's seen has been on clear summer days. It has zero signs of this issue after 10 years, and from what I've seen most '98s don't have this issue. I think that GM either introduced a new supplier for the glue very late in the '98 model year (which they continued using for a large portion of the '99+ cars as well), or they changed the application method/process, or they began using a different supplier for the roof panel, which was no longer compatible with the glue used. Maybe it's a combo of any or all.

kail

iTrader: (2)

could arrange somethin based on your locale...

2001somws.6

iTrader: (1)

If you want the car take the vin and call GM and see if the roof has been replaced already. Or any GM dealership can do this. Its like a report that lists all maintance on that car. I have one.

VeitSSki8701

iTrader: (2)

I got that same report from mine it says the roof hasnt been replaced but my roof is bubbling up as well. Will GM still grant a warranty on it. I called detroit before and the receptionists are complete idiots, i want to talk to a head honcho but that never works. i have a 2001 with 37000 miles.

onebad636

iTrader: (13)

Has anyone paid to have this fixed?? If so how much did it cost? Did they just sand and re-paint it or do they have to replace the roof?

z28voodoo

iTrader: (2)

repainting it wont stop it in my experience... even puttin bondo over it and sanding smooth it still comes up. the gases are what make it do it i think

onebad636

iTrader: (13)

That would cost a lot to get the whole roof replaced.

liquidsmooth

iTrader: (1)

I'm getting mine done right now for free at the cost of GM in a top of the line body shop. But this is only happening because I have a family friend connection that is way the heck up the line on GM. They're so nice to me now in fact, since he put in a call that my car was coming in, they offered to not only pay that, but were going to fix a completely 100% unrelated paint problem for me for free too. They are very nice and I would buy gm after the experience i've had with them. I know I got a bit lucky though too. I dropped my car off last friday, they called me yesterday and said the roof was in and they were going to start working on it yesterday. I'll take some pics and post them up when it's all done. BTW I have a 2000 SS under 60k miles that was mint other than the roof condition.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Yes it does, but that's the only option once it starts.

For the hardtop cars, it seems the normal cost is $2-3,000 depending on where you go. T-top cars are a good amount cheaper, I've seen numbers posted between $700 and $1500.

onebad636

iTrader: (13)

Mine is a T-top car but I have better places for my money than that! They need to pay for that.

warpwr

My T-top '02 Camaro was repaired last March with 30,000 on the odometer. I don't know the cost though because the invoice was zero to me.

I would think Chevy would repair a 5k car but maybe not if it doesn't have any bubbles showing yet.

Mine had bubbles appearing and it is mostly garaged.

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

Here's another data point:

My car has only been in my hands. It started off its life in living in Colorado for 1.5 years, never garaged, driven only on weekends. I then moved to Ft. Walton Beach, FL, and again, it was never garaged for 3 years, daily driven. Now I live here in sunny Dayton, OH, where the car has been garaged. It was daily driven for one year over the first winter here. At approximately 60,000 miles, in the dead cold of winter, the bubbles started. I only have 2 so far, but I can tell that it is going downhill. The car is no longer daily driven, and hasn't moved for 6 months out of my garage...no new bubbles.

I'm going to try and get my insurance to cover the hoop replacement under my comprehensive coverage...not sure if it will fly, but I have to do something. The local GM dealership won't touch it. It is a latent defect, yet they are washing their hands of it. **** GM.

liquidsmooth

iTrader: (1)

They've replaced mine and many others for free because of various reasons. Go back and re-read the reasons we got them to replace it, can keep trying unless you have loads of money you want to dump into it. If you have the t-tops it's not bad to repair, unlike my full hardtop would have been 2k+. Good luck!

P.S. check the sticky.

loyolacub68

iTrader: (16)

Two local and reputable shops quoted me $2300 to do it. It is a major pain in the *** to have it done, one of the major reasons dealers are so hesitant to do it.

loyolacub68

iTrader: (16)

I feel your pain. I had to go through the BBB. They initially turned me down, but when I filed an appeal they granted me a meeting with an arbitrator and a GM rep. I am still waiting to hear what the decision was.

Basically what I had to argue was that GM was obviously trying to cover up the problem. They sent out no letters and the dealers are for the most part totally clueless to the problem. I did not know until my car was out of warranty that I had the problem. Had GM tried to inform me I would have brought my car in immediately. GM knew about the problem in 2003, obvious because they issued a technical service bulletin during that year, but they did not tell anyone. Even people who brought their cars in to dealers were not told of the potential problems.

GM would say, you should have brought your car to a dealer for regular maint and we would have told you there was a problem. However, this is not required to keep your original warranty valid. Personally, I find the level of service, price, and quality of work better at local shops. And I have had service guys at pretty much any dealership try and screw me over with unnecessary work.

You just have to keep fighting and hope you run into the right set of GM reps and service managers. I wasn't so lucky.

liquidsmooth

iTrader: (1)

I took these today! Check the pic in the bottom left and look in the bottom left of the picture. I was so excited I didn't even notice that sitting there when I was taking the pictures