Body Filler Question
06-09-2008, 12:39 PM
#1
Body Filler Question I have done some body work in the past and some of it came out perfect, and some of it "shrank" or "settled" later on down the road. What causes this, and how long of a period of time would I have to wait to see if I am going to have an issue? I live in AZ and its almost always hot & dry if that makes any differance.
Thanks
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06-09-2008, 04:24 PM
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if you use the appropriate amount of hardner it should only be a couple of days for it to really shrink back, i would do whatever bondo you need to do to it and roll it out in the sun for a day and any shrinking it will do will do it then. also, make sure you are priming it afterward and giving it a good block, i would also shoot a good sealer on the panels you are respraying aswell to help the bondo prevent "mapping" (where you can see the outline of the bondo)
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06-09-2008, 04:34 PM
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yea specially him being in arizona where it is hot ANd dry. humidity can effect bondo setting up a little but if it is hot and dry with a high sun im thinking a day and its done unless you throw a paint on it that is going to draw the heat alot more such as a black or metallic but still.
to poster... lay the bondo and then knock the top of it off and let it sit dont shape it jst yet in order to give it sufficient dry time and shrinking. shape it after you have let it sit and bleed all the solvents out of it and allot it to settle. then shape it and add thin layers as needed.
to poster... lay the bondo and then knock the top of it off and let it sit dont shape it jst yet in order to give it sufficient dry time and shrinking. shape it after you have let it sit and bleed all the solvents out of it and allot it to settle. then shape it and add thin layers as needed.
06-09-2008, 08:19 PM
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yea specially him being in arizona where it is hot ANd dry. humidity can effect bondo setting up a little but if it is hot and dry with a high sun im thinking a day and its done unless you throw a paint on it that is going to draw the heat alot more such as a black or metallic but still.
to poster... lay the bondo and then knock the top of it off and let it sit dont shape it jst yet in order to give it sufficient dry time and shrinking. shape it after you have let it sit and bleed all the solvents out of it and allot it to settle. then shape it and add thin layers as needed.
to poster... lay the bondo and then knock the top of it off and let it sit dont shape it jst yet in order to give it sufficient dry time and shrinking. shape it after you have let it sit and bleed all the solvents out of it and allot it to settle. then shape it and add thin layers as needed.
06-09-2008, 08:23 PM
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Ive done body and paint for a few years now ... My first question is what kind of filler are you using ? With the technology out these days you should be using a quality premium body filler such as rage gold (only thing ill use! )
It actually has plastic microspheres to give it a uniform sanding quality along with little to no shrinkage especially when used correctly (1/8 of an inch or thinner) Old body fillers such as bondo brand use talc (sp?)
Which is a pain to sand and also does weird shrinking and so forth!
When i do a show car i definately like to let the car sit for a couple of weekes after roughing it out and then primering it with a very high build polyester primer (feather fills all i use! ) in summer 2 weeks is plenty in winter up to a month ... then i block the car straight starting with 180-220 and working up to 600 after a final sealer just before i roll it in the booth ... hope this helps!
heres a few pics of a recent project
It actually has plastic microspheres to give it a uniform sanding quality along with little to no shrinkage especially when used correctly (1/8 of an inch or thinner) Old body fillers such as bondo brand use talc (sp?)
Which is a pain to sand and also does weird shrinking and so forth!
When i do a show car i definately like to let the car sit for a couple of weekes after roughing it out and then primering it with a very high build polyester primer (feather fills all i use! ) in summer 2 weeks is plenty in winter up to a month ... then i block the car straight starting with 180-220 and working up to 600 after a final sealer just before i roll it in the booth ... hope this helps!
heres a few pics of a recent project
Last edited by Chevelle66; 06-09-2008 at 08:31 PM.
06-09-2008, 09:03 PM
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Ive done body and paint for a few years now ... My first question is what kind of filler are you using ? With the technology out these days you should be using a quality premium body filler such as rage gold (only thing ill use! )
It actually has plastic microspheres to give it a uniform sanding quality along with little to no shrinkage especially when used correctly (1/8 of an inch or thinner) Old body fillers such as bondo brand use talc (sp?)
Which is a pain to sand and also does weird shrinking and so forth!
When i do a show car i definately like to let the car sit for a couple of weekes after roughing it out and then primering it with a very high build polyester primer (feather fills all i use! ) in summer 2 weeks is plenty in winter up to a month ... then i block the car straight starting with 180-220 and working up to 600 after a final sealer just before i roll it in the booth ... hope this helps!
heres a few pics of a recent project
It actually has plastic microspheres to give it a uniform sanding quality along with little to no shrinkage especially when used correctly (1/8 of an inch or thinner) Old body fillers such as bondo brand use talc (sp?)
Which is a pain to sand and also does weird shrinking and so forth!
When i do a show car i definately like to let the car sit for a couple of weekes after roughing it out and then primering it with a very high build polyester primer (feather fills all i use! ) in summer 2 weeks is plenty in winter up to a month ... then i block the car straight starting with 180-220 and working up to 600 after a final sealer just before i roll it in the booth ... hope this helps!
heres a few pics of a recent project
and you block the primer with 180-220? i do a final block with those BEFORE spraying primer. i wont block primer down with anything less than a 360 and depending on color i will do 600-800. do you have any sand scratches coming back through or no? not being an ***, jst thinking 180 is a bit coarse to block with, even if you are finishing with 600 before you seal, you are still having to chase the 180 scratches that you began with.
Last edited by svtaaron; 06-09-2008 at 09:13 PM.
06-09-2008, 10:23 PM
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i like rage extreme aswell. im currently using it on my 94 and ive used it on past cars and its working the best out of any filler ive used. personally i like spies and hekkers raderal spray polyester. usally i block the polyester with like 220 then then prime it, then block the primer with 400 - 600 and wetblock with 800 depending on colors. then i seal before i basecoat.
06-09-2008, 10:31 PM
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i like rage extreme aswell. im currently using it on my 94 and ive used it on past cars and its working the best out of any filler ive used. personally i like spies and hekkers raderal spray polyester. usally i block the polyester with like 220 then then prime it, then block the primer with 400 - 600 and wetblock with 800 depending on colors. then i seal before i basecoat.
06-10-2008, 01:29 AM
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i can understand blocking th polyester down with 220 then reprimering over it and blocking the primer down with a finer grit (400-600) but maybe i missunderstood chevelle, maybe he is reprimering over the 180-220 also then finishing with 600 on the final prime? i dunno, was jst curious about sand scratches if he wasnt and how much work he puts into chasing the courser ones.
And to be clear id never lay paint over anything rougher than 500 grit ! I hate sand scratches! LOL
06-11-2008, 05:30 PM
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i like rage extreme. havent used the feather fill but high build u-pol sprays about 2-3 mils per pass. also seal with a 2 part sealer (epoxy primer)
and you block the primer with 180-220? i do a final block with those BEFORE spraying primer. i wont block primer down with anything less than a 360 and depending on color i will do 600-800. do you have any sand scratches coming back through or no? not being an ***, jst thinking 180 is a bit coarse to block with, even if you are finishing with 600 before you seal, you are still having to chase the 180 scratches that you began with.
and you block the primer with 180-220? i do a final block with those BEFORE spraying primer. i wont block primer down with anything less than a 360 and depending on color i will do 600-800. do you have any sand scratches coming back through or no? not being an ***, jst thinking 180 is a bit coarse to block with, even if you are finishing with 600 before you seal, you are still having to chase the 180 scratches that you began with.
06-11-2008, 08:18 PM
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all of their stuff is highquality, from primers to wax and grease remover, i love it.
no rattle cans...
06-11-2008, 09:23 PM
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Well U-Pol makes a rattle can too. I use that stuff at work... such as guide coat, etch primer, clear, adhestion promoter and the primer. Their rattle can clear is bad ***!!!
I've never liked using epoxy primers for a sealer since every one I know of is non-sanding and stays non-sanding for up to 7days. Hence it stays soft and continues to shrink over time. Even when your dealing with an epoxy primer like PPG's DP, it is an epoxy primer but it can be reduced to be used as a sealer and I don't like it cause everything you put over top of shrinks along with it. I'd rather use an actual sealer like PPG's NCS sealers. The only time I would use an epoxy promer is if I had parts that were bare metal and that were gonna be staying bare metal for quite a while I would spray that on it since it sticks to bare metal and is crosion resistant just protect it for the time being.
But I know nothing about U-Pol's products so I can only comment on the products I've used.
I've never liked using epoxy primers for a sealer since every one I know of is non-sanding and stays non-sanding for up to 7days. Hence it stays soft and continues to shrink over time. Even when your dealing with an epoxy primer like PPG's DP, it is an epoxy primer but it can be reduced to be used as a sealer and I don't like it cause everything you put over top of shrinks along with it. I'd rather use an actual sealer like PPG's NCS sealers. The only time I would use an epoxy promer is if I had parts that were bare metal and that were gonna be staying bare metal for quite a while I would spray that on it since it sticks to bare metal and is crosion resistant just protect it for the time being.
But I know nothing about U-Pol's products so I can only comment on the products I've used.
06-11-2008, 09:41 PM
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i wasnt aware that they made any rattle can products, but after visiting their website i see that they do. as i said i am very satisfied with the high build primer that i use with them (system 20 2k 4:1) it says it can be used as a wet on wet sealer aswell but i have never tried it. using it as a filler primer it fills and blocks very well. then i go over it with an epoxy primer (catalyzed) made by omni which is made by ppg.
i have used non catalyzed sealers which i think you are talking about and i didnt like them, as you say they take too long to set up. but with the omni catalyzed epoxy primer i havent had any trouble with shrinking or anything, it sprays like a base so there is no need to touch it before you begin laying color down.
i would like to try more u-pol products such as some of their highsolid "super clears" but i get HoK too cheap for that
i have used non catalyzed sealers which i think you are talking about and i didnt like them, as you say they take too long to set up. but with the omni catalyzed epoxy primer i havent had any trouble with shrinking or anything, it sprays like a base so there is no need to touch it before you begin laying color down.
i would like to try more u-pol products such as some of their highsolid "super clears" but i get HoK too cheap for that
Last edited by svtaaron; 06-11-2008 at 10:25 PM.
06-11-2008, 10:56 PM
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yeah i mean on some cars that have to be beyond perfect cars sometimes ill polyester a car, prime it and block it with 180 and re-prime to get some extra build on there and then go from there. i mean it really all depends on how you want to go about it.
06-15-2008, 12:31 AM
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when you can see bondo through paint it's because it was wasn't sanded fine enough and finished correctly before primer. When you have to pound on primer to fill in rough bondo it's going to show back up. I will rough out the bondo with 36-80 and then some 180 and put some finishing glaze over it (blaze glaze) and then finish that up to 320. Usually I knock it down with 120 and then 180 and DA with the 320. When there are no scratches or imperfections for the primer to shrink into it won't shrink. Usually I prime twice on a complete to make sure I dont miss anything.. you can mud the **** out of a panel, and if it's finished and prepped properly it will never come back. Well at least not in the next 10 years..