Tuners are you using narrow-bands to tune?
11-21-2011, 10:59 PM
#1
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Tuners are you using narrow-bands to tune? The other day i visited my local track and noticed a GTO running low 11's on a 402 ls6 intake. Well back to the story i noticed he was running HP tuners and he was us using the STOCK o2's sensors to tune the engines. That was the first time I ever seen a tuner use the narrow band, is it safe?
Could i try to tune my car only using the narrow-bands?
thanks you,
Exori4041
Could i try to tune my car only using the narrow-bands?
thanks you,
Exori4041
11-22-2011, 06:30 AM
#2
back in the day before widebands were affordable and were the size of a IBM 386 everybody used narrowbands. In fact I rarely have a wideband in my car just out of habit, just use the NBs and read plugs. If you havent done it this way before i wouldnt do it though, pretty easy to pop a ringland. Widebands are so cheap now this is kind of a lost art
11-22-2011, 07:05 AM
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The thing about narrowbands is that the mv reading depends on the temp of the sensor. For example, 2nd gear at 890 mv may be 860 mv in 4th gear. Which is right? Just save yourself some grief and buy a wideband. Is it really worth half-assing?
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11-22-2011, 02:20 PM
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I won't. Just use it for am I greater than stoich or less than stoich. Else, ignore what you see on it. They are affected by pressure too just like widebands, so if you have high backpressure, it is even more inaccurate.
11-23-2011, 07:58 PM
#10
Do you have any idea what was said or what you are talking about?
Most tuners use the narrow band oxygen sensors in closed loop to adjust the fueling. The only time you do not is when the vehicle is in open loop, as you cannot. Open loop means anything before normal operating temp or at WOT. Those times the O2 sensors are not warm enough or out of their normal operating range to be accurate. Besides going the other way of OL tuning, they are the only way to tune your fueling in for drivability.
IF you see your narrow bands ACTUALLY operating at WOT, then that means you are prob WAY WAY too lean and should def stop what you are doing until someone can help you.
Most tuners use the narrow band oxygen sensors in closed loop to adjust the fueling. The only time you do not is when the vehicle is in open loop, as you cannot. Open loop means anything before normal operating temp or at WOT. Those times the O2 sensors are not warm enough or out of their normal operating range to be accurate. Besides going the other way of OL tuning, they are the only way to tune your fueling in for drivability.
IF you see your narrow bands ACTUALLY operating at WOT, then that means you are prob WAY WAY too lean and should def stop what you are doing until someone can help you.
11-23-2011, 09:32 PM
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Do you have any idea what was said or what you are talking about?
Most tuners use the narrow band oxygen sensors in closed loop to adjust the fueling. The only time you do not is when the vehicle is in open loop, as you cannot. Open loop means anything before normal operating temp or at WOT. Those times the O2 sensors are not warm enough or out of their normal operating range to be accurate. Besides going the other way of OL tuning, they are the only way to tune your fueling in for drivability.
IF you see your narrow bands ACTUALLY operating at WOT, then that means you are prob WAY WAY too lean and should def stop what you are doing until someone can help you.
Most tuners use the narrow band oxygen sensors in closed loop to adjust the fueling. The only time you do not is when the vehicle is in open loop, as you cannot. Open loop means anything before normal operating temp or at WOT. Those times the O2 sensors are not warm enough or out of their normal operating range to be accurate. Besides going the other way of OL tuning, they are the only way to tune your fueling in for drivability.
IF you see your narrow bands ACTUALLY operating at WOT, then that means you are prob WAY WAY too lean and should def stop what you are doing until someone can help you.
all the things that needed to be explained were explained. the beginning statement was referring to the dragstrip/track so in my opinion he is referring to WOT. for the rest or all of it to be explained all the other things needed to be said in this thread about CL, OL, narrowband feedback and usage...etc.
Yes i know what they are all talking about. I do not specifically use the 02s/narrowbands to tune by, but their feedback is used at part throttle and CL as you have stated....
11-24-2011, 09:18 PM
#14
You can use them to log WOT but I would only suggest NA applications. Should most people -no. You have to know what your looking at. A tuner should use a wideband to verify/set everything.
For my personal NA cars I've always just gone by the nrrowbands. When checked on the dyno the A/F's were correct.
For my personal NA cars I've always just gone by the nrrowbands. When checked on the dyno the A/F's were correct.
11-25-2011, 01:25 PM
#15
I always use narrowbands for VE/MAF scaling, since those are the sensors that will be on the car making the corrections full time. Not a wideband.
For any type of WOT tuning, narrowbands can get you close if you really know what you're looking at, but should otherwise only be done with a wideband in place. That being said, as Slowhawk mentioned, if you must use narrowbands to get it somewhat close only do that on N/A cars.
For any type of WOT tuning, narrowbands can get you close if you really know what you're looking at, but should otherwise only be done with a wideband in place. That being said, as Slowhawk mentioned, if you must use narrowbands to get it somewhat close only do that on N/A cars.
11-26-2011, 10:38 PM
#17
I always use narrowbands for VE/MAF scaling, since those are the sensors that will be on the car making the corrections full time. Not a wideband.
For any type of WOT tuning, narrowbands can get you close if you really know what you're looking at, but should otherwise only be done with a wideband in place. That being said, as Slowhawk mentioned, if you must use narrowbands to get it somewhat close only do that on N/A cars.
For any type of WOT tuning, narrowbands can get you close if you really know what you're looking at, but should otherwise only be done with a wideband in place. That being said, as Slowhawk mentioned, if you must use narrowbands to get it somewhat close only do that on N/A cars.
I prefer to use my wideband when I can...but in the rare event where I couldn't, I have been able to at least use them enough to get the full throttle afr to be consistent rather than all over the place, and to at least say to the owner of the car "it's probably too rich...it's safe...but we can do more with a good wideband in here"...after a car is tuned completely with a wideband...it's ok to use the narrowbands to see that full throttle is still in check...but they're not consistent from car to car, gear to gear, engine mod to engine mod...so it's only worth it if you know that your car, on say a 75 degree day, in say 3rd gear...usually shows you X mV on the narrowbands...so if you suddenly see it way higher, you're probably suddenly running rich for some reason...if you suddenly see it way lower, you're probably suddenly running lean...and either way, you need to then correct it.
