Problems logging the wrong AFR with HPtuners
12-24-2011, 07:57 PM
#1
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Problems logging the wrong AFR with HPtuners Here is the problem,
At part throttle or idle, the AFR im logging is waay richer then what the wideband gauge is actually reading.
I have ruled out it being the wideband. I have made all the necessary changes in Hptuners to calibrate it correctly.
I have also tried both my LC1 and AEM widband. Both are reading the same on the gauge(14.7-Idle) yet both are reading mid-high 10's in my logs at idle and part throttle cruising.
Here is the catch,
I logged a WOT run last night and it seems that the log showed roughly 12.0
through the run. wich is right about where the gauge was actually reading.
Seems like any low air speed condition in the exhuast, the logs are pretty much stuck way rich and wont move, but when you go WOT it picks up what the AFR really is?!?
So my question is,
Could the reason behind this be because I have the wideband in the rear O2 bung behind the cat, and the cat is screwing with the low air speed readings that much?
Or is it a problem with the MPVI unit of hptuners just reading the analog signal jacked up??
Or maybe some other wierd voltage issue??
All my grounds and connections are correct, what am I missing here?!
Anyone else had some issues like this happen?
This **** is aggravating me, I cant do any tuning on this thing till i feel comfortable enough to actually trust my datalogs AFR.
At part throttle or idle, the AFR im logging is waay richer then what the wideband gauge is actually reading.
I have ruled out it being the wideband. I have made all the necessary changes in Hptuners to calibrate it correctly.
I have also tried both my LC1 and AEM widband. Both are reading the same on the gauge(14.7-Idle) yet both are reading mid-high 10's in my logs at idle and part throttle cruising.
Here is the catch,
I logged a WOT run last night and it seems that the log showed roughly 12.0
through the run. wich is right about where the gauge was actually reading.
Seems like any low air speed condition in the exhuast, the logs are pretty much stuck way rich and wont move, but when you go WOT it picks up what the AFR really is?!?
So my question is,
Could the reason behind this be because I have the wideband in the rear O2 bung behind the cat, and the cat is screwing with the low air speed readings that much?
Or is it a problem with the MPVI unit of hptuners just reading the analog signal jacked up??
Or maybe some other wierd voltage issue??
All my grounds and connections are correct, what am I missing here?!
Anyone else had some issues like this happen?
This **** is aggravating me, I cant do any tuning on this thing till i feel comfortable enough to actually trust my datalogs AFR.
12-24-2011, 08:08 PM
#2
You mentioned you made the necessary changes in Hp Tuners Scanner to "calibrate" the EIO input for your wideband. When you say "calibrate" what do you mean? Reason I ask is the wideband's you specified you own (LC1 & AEM) are both listed as pre-calibrated widebands you can insert with a simple point and click. You don't need to do any "calibrating" of any kind.
Hp tuner VCM Scanner > Table Display > EIO Input 1 > Right Click > Insert > Wideband O2 > Choose the one you own > Now hit the X in the top right
Done!
After catalytic converter AFR scanning should only be off by -0.20 AFR from the actual Pre catalytic converter AFR.
Be certain your (2) wideband output cables are connected properly. the postive cable should be in the (#1) position and the ground in the (#5) position of the Hp Tuners green EIO input.
Also make sure your wideband is outputing in high resolution mode.
Hp tuner VCM Scanner > Table Display > EIO Input 1 > Right Click > Insert > Wideband O2 > Choose the one you own > Now hit the X in the top right
Done!
After catalytic converter AFR scanning should only be off by -0.20 AFR from the actual Pre catalytic converter AFR.
Be certain your (2) wideband output cables are connected properly. the postive cable should be in the (#1) position and the ground in the (#5) position of the Hp Tuners green EIO input.
Also make sure your wideband is outputing in high resolution mode.
Last edited by 2TR; 12-24-2011 at 08:13 PM.
12-24-2011, 08:22 PM
#3
Staging Lane
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I have tried both the pre-calibrated ones and i have also tried configuring my own.. Same result.
As for wireing, I have checked and re-checked 20 times already. everything on that part is good.
Now for the high resolutution mode?
How do I verify the wideband is outputing in this mode?
Thanks for your help.
As for wireing, I have checked and re-checked 20 times already. everything on that part is good.
Now for the high resolutution mode?
How do I verify the wideband is outputing in this mode?
Thanks for your help.
12-24-2011, 08:40 PM
#4
Forget my high res mode reference. I use a FAST Dual Wideband myself. It requires you specify low/high resoluton output mode.
Have you done a free air calibration with the 02 sensor?
Have you made certain your calibration setting are correct in your LC1 (p. 12 of attached link).
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/s...C-1_Manual.pdf
Have you done a free air calibration with the 02 sensor?
Have you made certain your calibration setting are correct in your LC1 (p. 12 of attached link).
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/s...C-1_Manual.pdf
12-24-2011, 09:33 PM
#6
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Did the free air calibration, also did the calibration with the software.
As for grounding, everything is grounded to the same lug so that shouldnt be a issue.
Not only that, my aem wich dosnt require any of this nonsense to function properly is reading exactly what my lc1 is reading.
What seems to be off is my hptuner logs. all throttle positions seem to be in the 10-11's afr wise. until i go WOT, thats when both my logs and both gauges seem to read pretty much the same thing.
I just cant figure out why at any other throttle positions my log is way off from the gauges..
As for grounding, everything is grounded to the same lug so that shouldnt be a issue.
Not only that, my aem wich dosnt require any of this nonsense to function properly is reading exactly what my lc1 is reading.
What seems to be off is my hptuner logs. all throttle positions seem to be in the 10-11's afr wise. until i go WOT, thats when both my logs and both gauges seem to read pretty much the same thing.
I just cant figure out why at any other throttle positions my log is way off from the gauges..
12-24-2011, 09:38 PM
#7
Did the free air calibration, also did the calibration with the software.
As for grounding, everything is grounded to the same lug so that shouldnt be a issue.
Not only that, my aem wich dosnt require any of this nonsense to function properly is reading exactly what my lc1 is reading.
What seems to be off is my hptuner logs. all throttle positions seem to be in the 10-11's afr wise. until i go WOT, thats when both my logs and both gauges seem to read pretty much the same thing.
I just cant figure out why at any other throttle positions my log is way off from the gauges..
As for grounding, everything is grounded to the same lug so that shouldnt be a issue.
Not only that, my aem wich dosnt require any of this nonsense to function properly is reading exactly what my lc1 is reading.
What seems to be off is my hptuner logs. all throttle positions seem to be in the 10-11's afr wise. until i go WOT, thats when both my logs and both gauges seem to read pretty much the same thing.
I just cant figure out why at any other throttle positions my log is way off from the gauges..
So...Also read p. 17 part (7.8 Analog Output tricks/hints) for a way to get your devices reading correctly when there is a ground offset issue.
Also go here and use the following (3) links to fix your issue.
http://www.thetuningschool.com/support/free-downloads/
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12-24-2011, 10:03 PM
#10
Is it misfiring or bogging or trying to cut off when the log is reading that rich? I know when I had fouled my spark plugs once, the AFR was pig rich and would miss and bog until I floored it and it got up into the higher rpm ranges.
Have you looked at the plugs to see if they are loaded up with fuel and fouled?
Have you looked at the plugs to see if they are loaded up with fuel and fouled?
12-24-2011, 10:39 PM
#12
Well I can't SEE you actual LC1 reading against whats in the scanner log you posted to see the discrepancy so only thing I can confirm is your using the correct configuration data for the LC1. Have you tried seperating the ground locations to see if the problem persists?
12-24-2011, 11:01 PM
#13
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Ok figured it out!! Thanks a ton for your help! I just needed to put 13 in the offset value enstead of 10. duhhh! lol
The only thing i need to do now is slow down the widebands read properties. its bouncing around from 13.9-14.7 pretty fast. The aem is just a solid 14.7 at idle. the lc1 bounces around ALOT!
Im still going to try seperating the grounds to try to lower that offset error #. I just want to get everything as accurate as possible.
The only thing i need to do now is slow down the widebands read properties. its bouncing around from 13.9-14.7 pretty fast. The aem is just a solid 14.7 at idle. the lc1 bounces around ALOT!
Im still going to try seperating the grounds to try to lower that offset error #. I just want to get everything as accurate as possible.
01-16-2012, 07:56 PM
#14
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Why would grounding everything to the same lug cause offset errors? The LC-1 wiring diagram specifically tells you to hook all grounds (Heater, System, Calibration if used, and the Green analog wire) to the same lug.
I assume that if you have the 7-wire LC-1 and you use the Green Analog ground wire, then you only need ONE wire going into the HPT EIO input. Is that correct? Or do I need ANOTHER ground wired into the #5 ground position on the EIO? And if so, is that to be grounded to the same lug as all other grounds? I don't use the black ground or the yellow analog input since i have the XD-16 guage and it connects through the 2.5mm stereo plug.
I assume that if you have the 7-wire LC-1 and you use the Green Analog ground wire, then you only need ONE wire going into the HPT EIO input. Is that correct? Or do I need ANOTHER ground wired into the #5 ground position on the EIO? And if so, is that to be grounded to the same lug as all other grounds? I don't use the black ground or the yellow analog input since i have the XD-16 guage and it connects through the 2.5mm stereo plug.
All Innovate MTS devices like the LC-1 with dual serial ports should have their system grounds connected together to a common ground point. If an external data logger or ECU is to be fed by an MTS device, the MTS ground should be located at or near the ECU or data logger’s input signal ground. Some ECU’s or data loggers have differential inputs. A differential input has a separate ground INPUT for each sensor input. This ground input MUST be connected also to ground as shown in these diagrams. If one analog output of the LC-1 is used to drive an AFR display and the other output is used to connect to an ECU, the AFR display ground should be connected to the ECU ground. The schematics below can also adapted for 7-wire LC-1s. Simply wire the Green analog ground wire with the System ground.
