flattusmaximus78

iTrader: (1)

CAR: 2002 z28 A4
MODS: LSR Comp cam, 5.3 heads, fti 3000 converter, long tubes/full exhaust, and tuned with hp tuners.

Check engine lights:

P1133 Bank 1 fuel control shifted lean

P1153 Bank 2 fuel control shifted lean (after swapping sides)

Conditions:

Start up, innovate wideband pegs 22 lean and holds for 45 seconds or so before richening up.

WOT, starts at 12.5 and then pegs the innovate to 22 lean.

If I shut the car off for 5 minutes or so and turn it back on, it'll peg 22 lean for a second and then idle around 16.0 toe 18.0 for a minute before returning to 15.2 area. If I rev it more then quarter throttle it'll richen up.


Idle is 14.8 to 16.1 for the most part. Mostly 15.2.
Crusing. ^^^ Same.

WHAT I'VE TRIED SO FAR:

I pulled both 02 sensors and swapped sides. I only had p1133 at first, after the 02 swap, I then had both codes. It didn't make the condition worse or better.

This is a video of the wideband when the car starts normally 100% cold:


The way the idle is above, in my opinion is rich. Not rich enough to hurt anything. It is only on start up for 45 seconds if not less.

Here is what my 02's looked like after I pulled them out:






My questions are:

Do I replace the 02's? They look extremely old. I had the 02 heater codes pop up multiple times on cold days, but has since dissapeared with warmer days. I had longtubes way before my hc/motor build with a diable 93 tune and never had any cel's for 02's. Do I replace the 02's? Tons of threads say corvette rears or bosch sensors, but other threads end with this not working.

Is there something to do in hp tuners? I can meet with my tuner if need be. Idk if there is a fix for this. I don't mind buying 02's, but I don't want to destroy another set if that is the case.

flattusmaximus78

iTrader: (1)

Anyone?

Does setting these codes to no report in hp tuners reverse the lean trend? Car ran great before.

Or i read about leving the car in open loop via the hp tuners.

ZL1Killa

iTrader: (17)

Actual HPTuner code details:
P1133 - HO2S Insufficient Switching Bank 1 Sensor 1
P1153 - HO2S Insufficient Switching Bank 2 Sensor 1

if you do searching on these codes I believe you will find that these are turned off, to not reported by a LOT of people. Usually after a header install or exhaust mode this happens. Either the 02s aren't far enough in the exhaust stream or something of this matter.

As far as your wideband, as long as it is reliable, it sounds like you need to tune your Open Loop fueling table and your closed loop fueling tables (MAF, VE, PE) to get your fueling spot on.

flattusmaximus78

iTrader: (1)

I had seen that in a lot of posts. It would appear that people who trouble shoot with diablo have the name of the code a little different as I did. I did see a lot of those threads.

As you said, I do see a lot that just switch it to no report. Seems that replacing the 02's, wrapping them, or switching to the other supposed "better 02's" never works. I have about 700 miles on this tune, but over 30,000 miles on the 02 sensors. Literally before this code popped up, it never acted like this. 14.8 to 15.2 at idle/cruising and 12.5 at wot all the way to 6500rpms.

When the car pops the code up, is this was causes a change if the way the car runs. IE: If I change it to no report it will reverse the lean pattern? Or does it just keep the eye sore off the dash?

Thank you for the response btw!

06MonteSS

those codes normally have to be disabled due to the long tube headers...

2000 TAWS6

iTrader: (1)

Not sure which O2's are which in your photo's, but they look like their getting alot of fuel. Almost looks like your getting a false lean and it's dumping fuel to compensate. Have you check for vacuum and exhaust leaks?
What do your fuel trims show? O2 voltages?

Jon

flattusmaximus78

iTrader: (1)

They could be the stock 02's if that is what you are referring too. I only have my front 02's. When my car cold starts it is rich as you can see in the video. Most cars sit at 13.8 or so before going up to 14.8-15.2 and mine starts in the 12's instead. Other then that, everywhere else, my wideband shows that it's functioning as it should.

I do see what you are saying, but If it was dumping fuel it doesn't show on my wide band. The code says force lean and my wide band is lean just as you see in the video.

My exhaust is tight as a ****, everything has clamps and trz motorsports did the welds on anything welded. Shes solid, def no leaks. No vacuum leaks as well. Car was put together real well.

I swapped 02's back to where they orginally were and the p1133 came back, but p1153 did not. Leads to beleive the drivers side 02 is bad. I heard unplug the computer for a few it will reset fuel trims. Going to try that and see if it reverses the lean condition. If so then I will swap 02's and see what the tuner wants to do. Just trouble shooting before I have him or myself drive to delete the code.

Thanks guys, I always appreciate the time and answers. Any other questions that may be helpful FIRE away.

ZL1Killa

iTrader: (17)

turn off the codes and see what you get. you should be able to reset fuel trims with diablo ? maybe?

if you need or want to try new 02s, hit advance and use promo code A123 (or google techbargains / retailmenot for better discounts @ advance)

when you crank the car, even cold or warm, it will start in open loop and either use the OL table until warmed up or briefly if already warm, that slight richness upon startup is normal

flattusmaximus78

iTrader: (1)

Going to unplug the pcm tomorrow and see if it does infact reset the fuel trims. If so I will try it again with no 02s. If the code pops up after that, I'll meet up with my guy and just set them to no report! I will keep this updated.

Thanks guys!

06MonteSS

any time you disconnect the battery or flash a new tune to the pcm, the relearned items such as idle, fuel trims, emissions readiness tests, trouble codes, etc all get reset... so yes, unplugging/disconnecting power from the pcm for 20-30 minutes will reset the fuel trims...

flattusmaximus78

iTrader: (1)

Well tried unplugging the BATT over night, had no affect. Tried the PCM unplugged... same deal. Starts lean. Like you had said Monte, I was told it would reverse and trends in fuel trims that the car had made in either bank. Started it both times and did the exact same thing.

Still trying to do any and all trouble shooting before having my friend come down to check the car out. From what I read had it been 02's or the code being thrown because long tubes, shouldn't it have gone back to it's normal old, and correct idle afr #'s... even if just for a minute?

LMK if anyone thinks I should try a new 02 in bank 1 or even both. If not I may check fuel pressure next to be sure. I lost my guage to plug into the rail. Under the diagnostics in my diable it has options to log. Is fuel pressure somewhere in there?


Lastly, my wideband is in a great spot. It is an innovate. Part of me says it's the wideband because I've already replaced the only year old sensor before. Sometimes when it has a leaner idle I can feel the car cam hard as hell though. At 22.2 it doesn't feel as rough as I would have thought. Or at wot.

flattusmaximus78

iTrader: (1)

Replaced my bank 1 02 sensor. P1133 is now gone. p1153 never came back when I put the sensor back in it's original bank. P0135 came up again, so I wrapped all my sensors in heat wrap and all is well.

Now I recalibrated my wb. I have an innovate. Did the free air calibration. Fired it up this morning and all was well. When I shut the car off at work, 5 min later I fired it back up and same thing. Went to 22.2 lean for a second. Also did a wot pull on the way home and it went from 12.5 to 13.5 to 22.2 in the blink of an eye. Even when I let out and and got back on the gas to cruise it held 22.2 for a few. My cutout is close to the sensor, always closed and never been used, but it has me wondering.

MontecarloDrag

iTrader: (3)

You have an exhaust leak. The engine can't make any power at WOT leaner than 16, it would lose all power.
I have had a few cars with real lean situations and they lost all power when AFR went over 16, felt like hitting the brakes.
The same exhaust leak is making the O2's dump more fuel.

flattusmaximus78

iTrader: (1)

I could see exhaust escaping from my close cutout and throwing off the wideband sensor. But its like 4 ft away from my 02 sensors. And even if it were, the car is reading lean not rich. Unless you ment another car.

I let out when it went to 22.2 at wot, but it felt as good as ever. I figured 22.2 at wot would feel awful.

flattusmaximus78

iTrader: (1)

Closed*

flattusmaximus78

iTrader: (1)

Took the plate off my cutout. It was def letting exhaust out. I cleaned it off and layed a bead of rtv on the outter edges. Once clamped down i put some on the outside maiting surfaces. It is a ft downstream from my wb sensor. Got the wb sensor hangin out of the car. Ganna do a free air calibration before i leave work and see if that changes anything.

spy2520

iTrader: (3)

I don't think the cutout would cause the problem. It would have to be a leak before the o2 sensors.

flattusmaximus78

iTrader: (1)

I understand that, but there is no leaks near the 02 sensors. Also no more codes being thrown either. This leak is about 3 ft more or less from the 02s and less than a foot from my wb 02 sensor. Im trying to eliminate a wb 02 sensor reading improperly.

spy2520

iTrader: (3)

I see, i wonder what the wideband readings are when you run in open loop.

flattusmaximus78

iTrader: (1)

When the car was fully warmed up at wot it jumped to 22.2 steady. Driving and idle is 14.7 to 15.0 and barely ever sees 15.2. If i shut it off for a second and fire it back up it will read 22.2 for a second and idle a little bumpy. Use to allways do that but the wide band would be in the 12s then jump right up to 14.8.