HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

Ok guys, come this Friday the car is getting a new tune because I'm very disappointed in the current one after finding out how off it is. Basically the car is at 27 degrees at WOT and around 15 degrees throughout a big part of the mid range. The 27 seems to be in the ballpark but 15 is simply way to low. For any of you that have a setup similar to mine (or simply have extensive knowledge in this area) what kind of timing are you seeing...both WOT and throughout? I'm not as concerned about the nitrous at the moment as I am n/a, as I can always pull from my LNC box. It has been suggested to me by a reputable source that my setup might be optimal at 30-31 degrees timing at WOT. Could that maybe be right or is that likely to high? Of course i know every car and combo is different, but I'm just trying to get some general feedback because I'm curious. Mods are in my signature and I'm running 11.5 compression as well

Thanks

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

No one?

LilSlo1

iTrader: (3)

I run 32 degrees starting at 2000 rpms and ramp it down to 28 by about 5000 rpms. My car is an auto with a 4000 stall. I foot brake to 2500. I have found that that the 32 degrees down low for me helps flash my converter and gets me my best 60 foot.

I would pull 2 degrees out across the whole rpm band if I sprayed a 125 shot, to be safe.

15 degrees sounds way to low.

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the reply! What are your mods if you don't mind my asking? What timing at WOT as well? And yes I was pissed to find out I had only 15 degrees timing lol.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

I would think you could easily do 26-28 degrees throughout a large portion of the RPM range in WOT.

Part-throttle, you can do quite a bit more with a large cam. 30s to 40s in the lower cylinder airmass cells.

The part-throttle cells won't affect your peak dyno performance however.

And there is no guarantee a 30-31 degrees at WOT will make any more power. If anything, you may lose the cushion you have for bad gas and gain no power.

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the feedback! I can't even begin to tell you how much of a difference 22 compared to 15 felt throughout the mid range...very noticable!! I'm so pissed that Vector was so incompetent on their tuning abilities that they gave me such a crappy tune lol! I totally understand what you are saying, and will let my new tuner make the final calls, but I was just more or less curious what others may be running with a combo like mine. I'm at 27 WOT now but Kyle at TMS said a setup like mine might do better around 30 degrees from what he has found. Come this Friday we will see

LilSlo1

iTrader: (3)

My timing at WOT is what I previously posted.
I run 32 degrees starting at 2000 rpms and ramp it down to 28 by about 5000 rpms, and hold 28 degrees all the way to 8000 rpms.

My setup:
LS1 stock bottomend with ARP rod bolts
Solid roller 25x/26x duration @.050 0.625/0.625 lift 108 lobe sep.
AI CNC 243 heads
11.5:1 compression
Victor jr. with accufab 4150 throttle body
yank ss4000
4L60E
dana 60 4.88 gear
28 x 10.5 slicks
3300 race weight
Best 1/4 mile 10.76 @ 126

You timing may vary a few degrees from what I am running. Every engine is different, different cylinder heads may have different chamber efficiencys requiring different ignition timing. Ignition timing can be tuned on the dyno, however, a change in 2 degrees may not see a change on the dyno but you may see a change on the racetrack. Basically run the least amount of timing possible to achieve best dyno numbers, then add or subtract 2 degrees on the racetrack and see if there's a difference.

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

Ok gotcha! Your setup shows me that I can most likely add a TON of timing in the middle and down low. We will be doing all tuning on the street for now, and maybe a dyno at a later point.

NicD

iTrader: (7)

Comparing timing numbers with others on the internet will get you nothing as you all have different combos, different gas, different conditions. As an example if you ran that combo with that compression ratio, etc in AZ with our 91 oct you would more than likely be pinging your *** off with 27 deg of timing... generally speaking of course.

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

Yes I'm fully aware of that. Like I mentioned earlier I know every car is different, and I was just more curious than anything as to what others were doing with similar builds

MontecarloDrag

iTrader: (3)

Start with a stock LQ9 timing table, it will perform much better than fixed 15 degrees. Then modify the WOT timing to 24 and add 1 degree until it stops improving 1/4 mile MPH

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Agree. I would add 4 to 6 degrees across the board to the stock LS1 timing map (the LQ9 maps are pretty soft due to it being a truck and not a performance vehicle).

Use this one. Select all cells and add 6 degrees to all in High Octane. Then copy the table to the Low Octane.

Also, copy the in-drive timing spark table for idle. It's around 28 degrees in this file. You want the idle timing tables to be very close to the High and Low Octane tables. They will all be around 28 degrees in the .6-.28g/cyl airmass cells between 400-1200 RPM.

1970camaroRS

iTrader: (8)

I really like to use the stock 2002 Zo6 table as a baseline and work from there. I usually up the WOT areas from 22 to 26.

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

I really appreciate all the solid info here guys! I'll present this info to my tuner and see what he thinks. He seems like a very sharp guy with this stuff so I'm confident he will get me where I need to be. I'll post here again on Friday and let you all know how it went.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

I like that Z06 map as well. It's more aggressive than the 02 F-Body.

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

Just wanted to give everyone an update: Just got back from from having my tune redone, but didn't get to finish everything due to weather. But as of now we went from 15 to around 24 degrees timing throughout most of the midrange. Car pulls harder now and the nitrous is a beast in that range as well! No knock whatsoever either. At some point we will get it on the dyno and do some of the fine tuning then. Overall I'm happy with the new tune, and it just goes to show that even some of the well known big name shops have no clue about real tuning, and that some of the great ones are doing it on their own

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

24 degrees with nitrous? Are you running a box to retard the timing 8 degrees or so?

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

No 24 n/a, and I'm pulling 4 degrees on the 125 shot via the LNC-2000. We are still at 27 n/a at WOT for now though. Before it was around 15 n/a in the mid range, so adding 9 degrees there has made for a noticeable difference n/a, and on the nitrous...well let's just say I broke loose for a second on a 3rd gear roll with 315 BFG dr's lol

MontecarloDrag

iTrader: (3)

Put a set of BR7EF plugs gapped to 30, bump the timing to 26 deg N/A and work from there. You first need to find the N/A timing the motor likes the most.
Once you have tuned the spark and made the most power, then add the nitrous. Pull 2 deg for a 100 shot, 4 for a 150.

Nitrous loves high compression and timing, but you must be careful, it's easy to break parts. Don't be greedy, slowly work your way up and your car will work like a beast.
If you are using pump gas, pull another 2 degrees for added safety. Aim for 12.50 AFR, no need to go richer.

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

Actually I have BR7's gapped exactly at 30, and a/f was originally 11.8 N20 and 12.8 n/a. When time and weather permits we will do more fine tuning, finding new a/f, dynoing, etc....

For now we tool care of the major issue...having 15 degrees throughout the midrange and taking it to 24 now. Much improved just from that