HP Tuners users heads up
10-09-2018, 03:15 PM
#1
HP Tuners users heads up If you upgrade to the new v4.0 + software and flash a tune, do not read that tune back out with older software. It can result in your interface being locked.
Why is this a concern?
If you have a couple different tuning laptops you use with various interfaces, you may have not updated to the newest software.
Why would HPT do this?
As a punitive measure against those attempting to skirt their EULA and license/credit system through nefarious means.
What to do if it happens?
First power down the computer and uninstall the older version, and do a full install of the new version. Fill in your application key and do a read/write calibration to see if the interface works again.
What if that fails?
You can email an interface log to HPT so they can verify you are on the up-and-up.
I have heard about this from other HPT users and tuners, but never experienced it myself. I had figured it was something the interface would need to ping home via an internet connection to do, but it is actually something saved in the tune file.
Read your EULA, it's all in there.
Why is this a concern?
If you have a couple different tuning laptops you use with various interfaces, you may have not updated to the newest software.
Why would HPT do this?
As a punitive measure against those attempting to skirt their EULA and license/credit system through nefarious means.
What to do if it happens?
First power down the computer and uninstall the older version, and do a full install of the new version. Fill in your application key and do a read/write calibration to see if the interface works again.
What if that fails?
You can email an interface log to HPT so they can verify you are on the up-and-up.
I have heard about this from other HPT users and tuners, but never experienced it myself. I had figured it was something the interface would need to ping home via an internet connection to do, but it is actually something saved in the tune file.
Read your EULA, it's all in there.
10-10-2018, 03:34 AM
#2
If you upgrade to the new v4.0 + software and flash a tune, do not read that tune back out with older software. It can result in your interface being locked.
Why is this a concern?
If you have a couple different tuning laptops you use with various interfaces, you may have not updated to the newest software.
Why would HPT do this?
As a punitive measure against those attempting to skirt their EULA and license/credit system through nefarious means.
What to do if it happens?
First power down the computer and uninstall the older version, and do a full install of the new version. Fill in your application key and do a read/write calibration to see if the interface works again.
What if that fails?
You can email an interface log to HPT so they can verify you are on the up-and-up.
I have heard about this from other HPT users and tuners, but never experienced it myself. I had figured it was something the interface would need to ping home via an internet connection to do, but it is actually something saved in the tune file.
Read your EULA, it's all in there.
Why is this a concern?
If you have a couple different tuning laptops you use with various interfaces, you may have not updated to the newest software.
Why would HPT do this?
As a punitive measure against those attempting to skirt their EULA and license/credit system through nefarious means.
What to do if it happens?
First power down the computer and uninstall the older version, and do a full install of the new version. Fill in your application key and do a read/write calibration to see if the interface works again.
What if that fails?
You can email an interface log to HPT so they can verify you are on the up-and-up.
I have heard about this from other HPT users and tuners, but never experienced it myself. I had figured it was something the interface would need to ping home via an internet connection to do, but it is actually something saved in the tune file.
Read your EULA, it's all in there.
10-10-2018, 06:52 AM
#5
I think its in part of whats been going on with how there's been a hack in the software with a one time activation for unlimited creds. its been discussed on another forum (wont disclose it on here but PM).
edit-reworded my original post.
edit-reworded my original post.
Last edited by fst100; 10-10-2018 at 08:38 AM.
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abid22hussain (09-25-2019)
10-10-2018, 12:36 PM
#6
but the unintended consequence is that those folks who like to use 2.24 to get files in binary so they can edit parameters HPT does not address can end up with a locked interface.
that raises my ire, but it's all right there in the EULA. can't do **** about it. just be aware.
if you do need access to .bin files you should go into the PCM hammer thread and start cheering on those guy's work. From what I've seen TunerproRT is absolutely workable for datalogging and editing. The GUI isnt as smooth as a commercial tool like HPT. And It's gonna need parameter ID's for adding widebands and controlling exterior devices. And we need more XDF's for common OS's but once there is a stable flash kernel it's on.
that raises my ire, but it's all right there in the EULA. can't do **** about it. just be aware.
if you do need access to .bin files you should go into the PCM hammer thread and start cheering on those guy's work. From what I've seen TunerproRT is absolutely workable for datalogging and editing. The GUI isnt as smooth as a commercial tool like HPT. And It's gonna need parameter ID's for adding widebands and controlling exterior devices. And we need more XDF's for common OS's but once there is a stable flash kernel it's on.
Last edited by truckdoug; 10-14-2018 at 02:18 PM. Reason: for cesar
10-10-2018, 02:11 PM
#7
I think they are rolling a firmware update, not locking interfaces.
I don't see how they can make older software execute kill commands for things unknown at the time the software was released.
They have updated the firmware in the past to make interfaces incompatible with older versions of the software. For example, they included a firmware update to a 2.24 release a to make a specific 2.23 beta incompatible (that 2.23 beta had the tables and parameters enabled to delete diesel emissions, people started to share it so they stopped it with the update). This way they force you to only use newest software with the features they want and preventing any weakness in older versions to be exploited.
If the interface still works with the newest version it was not locked, just updated. If it doesn't work with any version, it was killed.
I don't see how they can make older software execute kill commands for things unknown at the time the software was released.
They have updated the firmware in the past to make interfaces incompatible with older versions of the software. For example, they included a firmware update to a 2.24 release a to make a specific 2.23 beta incompatible (that 2.23 beta had the tables and parameters enabled to delete diesel emissions, people started to share it so they stopped it with the update). This way they force you to only use newest software with the features they want and preventing any weakness in older versions to be exploited.
If the interface still works with the newest version it was not locked, just updated. If it doesn't work with any version, it was killed.
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10-10-2018, 03:17 PM
#8
in my panic i did not screenshot the message, but it definitely used the word "locked" and said to send an interface log to HPT
I knew that it would not be handled via email in time for me to use it in a dyno tuning session today so I did the standard reboot and got lucky.
Can they lock your interface for perceived violation of the EULA? you bet. Its in the EULA.
I do occasionally need to alter files in hex, so the version of 2.24 that came with the interface I paid ~700 bucks for is useful in that manner.
But since this occurred I've segregated out everything thats been opened with v4.0 and even with v3.36 for that matter.
I knew that it would not be handled via email in time for me to use it in a dyno tuning session today so I did the standard reboot and got lucky.
Can they lock your interface for perceived violation of the EULA? you bet. Its in the EULA.
I do occasionally need to alter files in hex, so the version of 2.24 that came with the interface I paid ~700 bucks for is useful in that manner.
But since this occurred I've segregated out everything thats been opened with v4.0 and even with v3.36 for that matter.
Last edited by truckdoug; 10-14-2018 at 02:16 PM. Reason: for cesar
10-11-2018, 01:38 AM
#9
It's time to put on a tin foil hat if this is actually going on.....this isn't the first time I've heard of something like this recently either.
Now if I was to take a guess the interface has always had some way of being remotely deactivated based on what I've read. It's possible they have added the "Kill command" into the binary file when flashing a pcm with the most recent software so that the next time it's read if the version of the program being used is lower then X.X it would lock the interface. There are unused part's of the pcm's flash chip where....in theory.....I guess you could store a small bit of code..... like a mini flash kernel to interact with the interface and do something like this. It would be the equivalent of a pcm virus targeting their own software/hardware. Again this is just a tin foil hat theory.
It'd be easy enough to see if that's the case, read a virgin pcm out in .bin format, read and flash it with the most recent version of HPT but leave the file untouched when it's flashed back to the pcm. Then read the file back out in bin format and compare to the original bin file and see if anything was altered. The files should be a 100% match, if it's off by even one byte then something was altered when it was flashed and could be what's causing this.
Now if I was to take a guess the interface has always had some way of being remotely deactivated based on what I've read. It's possible they have added the "Kill command" into the binary file when flashing a pcm with the most recent software so that the next time it's read if the version of the program being used is lower then X.X it would lock the interface. There are unused part's of the pcm's flash chip where....in theory.....I guess you could store a small bit of code..... like a mini flash kernel to interact with the interface and do something like this. It would be the equivalent of a pcm virus targeting their own software/hardware. Again this is just a tin foil hat theory.
It'd be easy enough to see if that's the case, read a virgin pcm out in .bin format, read and flash it with the most recent version of HPT but leave the file untouched when it's flashed back to the pcm. Then read the file back out in bin format and compare to the original bin file and see if anything was altered. The files should be a 100% match, if it's off by even one byte then something was altered when it was flashed and could be what's causing this.
10-11-2018, 07:00 AM
#10
Interesting theory on 4.x and the V2 interface. That makes a lot of sense with some of the other stuff I've seen.
Pete, I've actually seen an interface that had been killed - but long before version 4.x. Luckily my coworker got his money back from the seller.
Pete, I've actually seen an interface that had been killed - but long before version 4.x. Luckily my coworker got his money back from the seller.
10-11-2018, 11:25 AM
#11
in my panic i did not screenshot the message, but it definitely used the word "locked" and said to send an interface log to HPT
I knew that it would not be handled via email in time for me to use it in a dyno tuning session today so I did the standard reboot and got lucky.
Can they lock your interface for perceived violation of the EULA? you bet. Its in the EULA.
I knew that it would not be handled via email in time for me to use it in a dyno tuning session today so I did the standard reboot and got lucky.
Can they lock your interface for perceived violation of the EULA? you bet. Its in the EULA.
Thanks
10-12-2018, 10:24 AM
#13
Sounds like there's a poison pill in the actual tune that their software can hit on. Let's say I never upgrade to 4.x as fst100 plans, and someone else writes a 4.x tune and I try to read it, could this brick my interface?
I hope not, that could be dangerous, some kid uses hacked 4.0 software on his PCM then sends the PCM in to a tuner who is still using V3, and the tuner's interface gets ban locked? We all know how unforgiving HPT is with missing credits etc. Would that make the tuner's HPT support log appear to show they were using the hacked software because their interface was reading one of these V4 files?
This whole thing is making me nervous. Is punishing the possible bad guy worth causing such an assache to everyone else?
I hope not, that could be dangerous, some kid uses hacked 4.0 software on his PCM then sends the PCM in to a tuner who is still using V3, and the tuner's interface gets ban locked? We all know how unforgiving HPT is with missing credits etc. Would that make the tuner's HPT support log appear to show they were using the hacked software because their interface was reading one of these V4 files?
This whole thing is making me nervous. Is punishing the possible bad guy worth causing such an assache to everyone else?
10-12-2018, 10:40 AM
#14
MPVI2 was rushed to market because they ran out of stock of the original MPVI and parts were unavailable to build new ones.
There has always been a "kill" command in the software so that if somebodies interface got stolen and they tried to use it the latest software it would nuke it. This is why you ask for the serial # of the box and ask HP Tuners first before buying it.
They stopped allowing you to open raw bin files years ago because they added the user defined parameters to the software to allow you to open up specific addresses for table definitions. They have changed their file save encryption schemas several times in the past few years as well to prevent people from stealing their work.
There has always been a "kill" command in the software so that if somebodies interface got stolen and they tried to use it the latest software it would nuke it. This is why you ask for the serial # of the box and ask HP Tuners first before buying it.
They stopped allowing you to open raw bin files years ago because they added the user defined parameters to the software to allow you to open up specific addresses for table definitions. They have changed their file save encryption schemas several times in the past few years as well to prevent people from stealing their work.
10-12-2018, 01:18 PM
#16
The defined outputs were super buggy and I only ever used them to test a few things in the past. Last I heard the chip that controlled the outputs had problems that couldn't be resolved by the chip vendor and the efforts to get around it in software weren't working thus it was removed. My guess is that it will come back with the MPVI2 expander hub.
10-14-2018, 02:09 PM
#19
Not related to this but perhaps it's in the EULA?
I had to flash the 2000 ECM to a 2002 ECM so that I could have access to some tables that didn't show up when using the 2000 ECM. When it did this, it cause HP tuners to make me use up 2 more credits because it thought I was working on a different car. Since it's the same car, is there a way for HP Tuners to credit me those 2 credits? Why should users be out $100 for something that could have been fixed with an update?
This is almost as bad as there not being a way to store more tunes using an external chip like how Ford has with the old SCT stuff. Just shut the car off, and you can swap between tunes using a toggle switch. No need to bring out a laptop and flash the ECM.....
I had to flash the 2000 ECM to a 2002 ECM so that I could have access to some tables that didn't show up when using the 2000 ECM. When it did this, it cause HP tuners to make me use up 2 more credits because it thought I was working on a different car. Since it's the same car, is there a way for HP Tuners to credit me those 2 credits? Why should users be out $100 for something that could have been fixed with an update?
This is almost as bad as there not being a way to store more tunes using an external chip like how Ford has with the old SCT stuff. Just shut the car off, and you can swap between tunes using a toggle switch. No need to bring out a laptop and flash the ECM.....