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There's nothing we can do until we either get the wideband on the logs or hook the narrow bands up. Typically, I do fueling first before anything else. There were some things we could do airflow-wise to help it settle down at idle, but with no wideband on the log, and the narrows disconnected, there is no where to go.
If you know how far off you are on fueling, wecould multiply both your VE tables by x percent, but that's only mildly better than a stab in the dark. It's likely pig rich now.
Newest log since changes, I can drive it, but is popping quite a bit and is sluggish at the moment. At least it's rich and not lean.... Still need help...
Shoot an email to HPT support, and see if you can get that glitch fixed with your logs. As darth said, not much we can do if we can't see the data. I would love to help out, but guessing ain't much help really. See if we can get the logs fixed. They are great on this stuff.
State Inspection, new tires (FIrehawk Indy 500's) today and will get it registered Monday. Then will be able to drive without fear. Thanks again Chopper and Darth, your help has been tremendous. Down to the fine tuning.. Did not pop as much on the way home but did have trouble staying started at a traffic light. Innovate WB readings were showing 11.5, 12.5, 12.7, 13.0 and being much more consistent.
At this point I know I need to yank the 02 sims, they are what are giving off the funny 02 readings in my log...
Shoot an email to HPT support, and see if you can get that glitch fixed with your logs. As darth said, not much we can do if we can't see the data. I would love to help out, but guessing ain't much help really. See if we can get the logs fixed. They are great on this stuff.
Ironically enough, I sent HP Tuners the email Trouble ticket a few hours ago. Yes, I realized I'm stuck at the moment.
There's nothing we can do until we either get the wideband on the logs or hook the narrow bands up. Typically, I do fueling first before anything else. There were some things we could do airflow-wise to help it settle down at idle, but with no wideband on the log, and the narrows disconnected, there is no where to go.
If you know how far off you are on fueling, wecould multiply both your VE tables by x percent, but that's only mildly better than a stab in the dark. It's likely pig rich now.
Sorry, I did not read this before I posted my last 2.. Going the Narrow band route and will see what happens.. Trouble ticket sent to HP Tuners to look into the Channels issue not reflecting in the Log..... I apologize for any redundancy.... I'm definitely getting rid of the O2 sims they were reading the same with just the key on... I laughed.... Will post soon..
Now my car is 100% legal and can drive to get better logs, etc..... Attached recording my car at start up with channels added, saved, and opened in that channel config.. See attached. I have sent the files to HP Tuners.. I'm sure I'm missing something stupid, but new challenges have risen... Plan was to have narrow O2's up front and WB 02's in rear bung location... unfortunately, the 2 unused bungs got slightly rusted, would not come off with air hammer/chisel... Unplugged WB's, installed NB's and car runs smoother.. Unplugged the O2 SIM's (figure they were the culprit of bad O2 readings).. I'm sure I'm missing something stupid. Now that I have Narrow's installed, should I go to a closed loop? Currently Narrows are plugged in and WB's disconnected.
Looks like it's running a lot better. You look pretty rich according your your WB input though, seeing it in the 12's when commanded is stoich. That's from the youtube vid. Also from your video, your not logging the TPS position, but in the log you posted with missing inputs, you are, which is freaking weird lol. Make sure to log TPS position instead of pedal position because that's for electronic throttles, and literally means the pedal position, not the throttle. In you case with a cable car, not applicable.
That must be a huge freaking cam lol. Your idle MAP is almost 80 kpa. Remember that when adjusting VE, it's your secondary VE table that makes changes, not the primary. Don't forget to copy the rows over from the main when you make changes. I typically use the main values to tune, then transfer the rows over to the secondary each time. I would get it leaner/back to stoich at least at idle first before considering closed loop. That can really throw the numbers around, and considering the lack of vacuum according to that glorious piece of 'merican steel you have for a cam, closed loop probably won't behave too well at idle.
If you want to go that route though, lots of us set it up for a open loop idle using the PE table to disable trims at idle. Set the enable TPS for power enrichment to 0% up to 1200, or 1600 RPM, then set the PE EQ multiplier to 1.0 for the same RPM values. Leave the rest of the table alone because you still want PE to actually be PE under WOT, etc. This will turn trims off at idle and enable them as soon as it goes above those values under normal conditions. Anytime the engine is under power enrichment, all fuel trims are disabled. It's a slick little trick to get big cams to idle well because of the false lean conditions they are known for due to overlap.
If that 12.7 is legit and consistent, I'd multiply both VE tables by 0.9 just to get closer, then go to closed loop and use the fuel trims to start dialing in the VE. I don't like that almost binary look of the oxygen sensors. It doesn't look like it's reading. more like an on off switch between 450 mV and 8xx mV. And it's oscillating on a very regular frequency, not randomish.
Looks like it's running a lot better. You look pretty rich according your your WB input though, seeing it in the 12's when commanded is stoich. That's from the youtube vid. Also from your video, your not logging the TPS position, but in the log you posted with missing inputs, you are, which is freaking weird lol. Make sure to log TPS position instead of pedal position because that's for electronic throttles, and literally means the pedal position, not the throttle. In you case with a cable car, not applicable.
That must be a huge freaking cam lol. Your idle MAP is almost 80 kpa. Remember that when adjusting VE, it's your secondary VE table that makes changes, not the primary. Don't forget to copy the rows over from the main when you make changes. I typically use the main values to tune, then transfer the rows over to the secondary each time. I would get it leaner/back to stoich at least at idle first before considering closed loop. That can really throw the numbers around, and considering the lack of vacuum according to that glorious piece of 'merican steel you have for a cam, closed loop probably won't behave too well at idle.
If you want to go that route though, lots of us set it up for a open loop idle using the PE table to disable trims at idle. Set the enable TPS for power enrichment to 0% up to 1200, or 1600 RPM, then set the PE EQ multiplier to 1.0 for the same RPM values. Leave the rest of the table alone because you still want PE to actually be PE under WOT, etc. This will turn trims off at idle and enable them as soon as it goes above those values under normal conditions. Anytime the engine is under power enrichment, all fuel trims are disabled. It's a slick little trick to get big cams to idle well because of the false lean conditions they are known for due to overlap.
I'm off tomorrow and plan to call LMR. I found out they are still alive which is a good thing.. Hopefully they can share a few details a little critical to the aspect in tuning my car.. Big cam? I will let you be the judge, LOL!!!!! Bullet Solid Roller Cam Card
If that 12.7 is legit and consistent, I'd multiply both VE tables by 0.9 just to get closer, then go to closed loop and use the fuel trims to start dialing in the VE. I don't like that almost binary look of the oxygen sensors. It doesn't look like it's reading. more like an on off switch between 450 mV and 8xx mV. And it's oscillating on a very regular frequency, not randomish.
I'm not 100% my 02 sensor situation is correctly figured out..We were in a hurry and did not test before I could get my car off the lift. . I seriously do not know what exactly was done with my OEM 02's and if they were deleted. I know there are videos I need to go and watch.. I know the DTC's were changed to No error reporting and is moving that back to MIL on.... the way to turn them back on?..
If my freaking software would only show the Channels in the log file in the WB mode, i believe this will be much easier... I have saved the channel configuration.
Being off tomorrow, my plan is to make serious progress..
Here is the response from HP Tuners.... I did everything asked except "Repolling for Supported parameters". Everything I read about this is bad. and stated to not do the re-polling.. Gray's out everything and loses channels. Anyone know anything about this?
This is Eric's response from HP Tuners. "So, I just tested your channels list on the bench here and found only the throttle position channel disappears everything else is staying. That particular channel is not supported so I would try the sae version. So here's what I did I opened your channels config and your layout config files then connected the vehicle next re-polled for supported parameters. then started a data log and the throttle position channel disappeared. Everything seems to be working just fine again try the sae channel for this."
It's frustrating because I see the Dynamic Airflow, Injector Pulse Widths etc all on the scanner but do not see it when I open the log.. I have saved the Channel Configuration, Layout configuration. Open those on my laptop, connect to the car, start with scanner open...run the car for a few minutes, close the scanner, disconnect USB from the laptop and then hit record on the data log... I will be the first to admit, I do not know this program well enough to feel comfortable.. that's why I'm asking for a ton of help.. (IE: Secondary VE Table creation, help!!!!). I have disconnected my WB 02's because I purchased Narrow's in hopes to tune in this manner. (Only 2 sensor bungs available at this time) The Narrow's are plugged into the rear 02 positions, I do not have cats... If at "no error reporting" on the 02's DTC's, does this mean they have been turned completely off?
Tune the primary VE table in the standard way, as I'm guessing you've been doing. It has more rows (rows go left to right across the table) so it is more detailed to tune this way. When you've made the corrections, open both tables, Primary and Secondary, and select the matching rows and copy them over from the primary.
The following rows need to be copied from the Primary table to your Secondary VE: 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
Unfortunately you can't select multiple spaced rows at the same time, so you have to do it one by one.
That's pretty crappy that the scanner still isn't working. Have you tried deleting and reinstalling the program? Worth a shot I guess if all else fails.
Your O2's still look pretty weird to me. You have one that looks binary and the other seems dead, as it's pretty much flat lining. They should look "random." In SD you don't even need them unless you are running Open Loop Fuel Trims. Distance also matters, so the farther away they are from the engine, the less accurate and reliable they become.
Chopper thanks ^^^^^^^^ Great ideas & suggestions. Couple more things I need to work on include getting my car to an exhaust shop and setting up both sets of 02's. I've been driving my car more, so far so good but man I think I'm getting about 4 or so mpg...passenger side window motor quit so time to replace.
I'm thinking of re-polling for parameters just to see what happens. Guess the worst would be reloading SAE and starting over..
Better update: Have a 2pm web related call with HP Tuners to go over my software. Will be great if it can be fixed tomorrow. Soon I should have logs with completed data.
Last edited by Y2kHawk05; 04-17-2019 at 06:53 PM.
Reason: More positive post
Here we go! Finally a log with all the channels.... I'm an idiot but smarter now for it... If the 02's still seem a bit off, Probably need to re-locate, but actually now that I know what to do, can bo back to WB's.
The Awesome news is I'm off the last Sunday of the month and will take my car to Cars & Coffee Austin at COTA for the first time. Can't freaking wait...
Last edited by Y2kHawk05; 04-18-2019 at 02:43 PM.
Reason: updated
Brother, your WB and O2's are really weird. From that log I do not trust those inputs at all. Everything is flatlined across the board, which has me seriously concerned. I didn't even look farther than this to be perfectly honest because I have changed WB sensors for less than this. Multiple times. They do go bad over time. This may be a wiring issue, perhaps a scanner issue (transform), I don't know, really because it is incredibly odd to see it do that. Those numbers should be all over the place, like a scratchy line, similar to your idle spark, which appears to be doing better.
My focus would be getting this issue fixed ASAP. Don't push it, don't do anything other than get that WB fixed so its a trustworthy source of information. How do you have it set up?
Brother, your WB and O2's are really weird. From that log I do not trust those inputs at all. Everything is flatlined across the board, which has me seriously concerned. I didn't even look farther than this to be perfectly honest because I have changed WB sensors for less than this. Multiple times. They do go bad over time. This may be a wiring issue, perhaps a scanner issue (transform), I don't know, really because it is incredibly odd to see it do that. Those numbers should be all over the place, like a scratchy line, similar to your idle spark, which appears to be doing better.
My focus would be getting this issue fixed ASAP. Don't push it, don't do anything other than get that WB fixed so its a trustworthy source of information. How do you have it set up?
Thanks!11 Ok, now that I know what to do WB's will be re-installed tomorrow... My goal to have narrows in the front and then WB's in the rear did not work out.. The 2 unused bungs are severely rusted - I need to get the car to an exhaust shop.. Currently I have 2 narrow bands plugged into the rear or sensor 2 positions. Probably the wrong place.. And then I wonder how I've gotten the crazy reading all except for 1 time. Hopefully going back to WB's tomorrow, using the Innovate LM1 we will see more accurate readings.... .. ..
04-04-2019, 03:06 PM
