Jim Blackwood

I need some advice about downloading an OS for the '411 controller. I have some ECMs pulled from '02 Silverados and need to install the '02 Camaro OS. Where do I get the OS? Preferably one that can work with a 2 bar MAP sensor.

Jim

minytrker

iTrader: (13)

All 2002 camaro have OS 12212156. Here is a stock tune for one.

B52bombardier1

I'm not a forced induction guy but you can find a few operating systems (aka "BIN" files) and their generally matching definition files (aka "XDF" files) at the GearHead EFI and PCMHacking.net sites.

How do you plan to write these OS's to your PCM? HP Tuners is probably the easiest but also the most expensive. LS Droid and PCM Hammer would be my next suggestions and I used LS Droid last night for the first time to write a file that I edited with Tuner Pro RT software.

There's much to discuss here and by far, I'm no expert - merely a tinkerer at this point. I only wrote that file last night to my lab rat junkyard P59 PCM as an experiment but it appears to have worked OK.

Rick

Jim Blackwood

I've been using TunerPro and PCM Hacker but so far haven't been able to upload anything. I have an AllPro cable and it checks out OK but I'm not getting any returns from the PCM so I'm going back over the bench harness. It's a home-built base on youtube so could be flawed. Anybody have a link to a tested reliable bench harness schematic?

I also have an OBDLink LX but the LS-Droid app on my Motorola phone has quit working. Says it needs an update but I can't find one.

I modded an '02 Camaro bin and have been trying to load it. When you do that with PCH using the "Write OS and Calibration" button does it load the bin, the xdf and the OS all at the same time? (I'm not clear on the differences between the three. Is the OS part of the bin?)

Jim

B52bombardier1

Hello Jim,

I'm no expert but I know the XDF does NOT get written to any PCM. The XDF is a definition file that helps PCM Hammer and Tuner Pro RT users interpret what is inside a BIN and further assists users to make required changes to the BIN. You save the BIN after making changes and leave the XDF file behind when writing to the PCM. The OS is certainly part of the BIN.

I have PCM Hammer but I don't use it. I use Tuner Pro RT to edit BIN files and then use LS Droid to write those edited files to a PCM. I have yet to do a segment swap and have only written to one PCM . . . my lab rat junkyard P59 PCM. However, I have used LS Droid to read a few PCMs. I use an OBDLink MX+ Bluetooth device for these operations.

Rick

Jim Blackwood

Thanks Rick. I just got it to work using PCH and the OBDLink LX and did a full write of two '411 PCMs. So that's great news. Tomorrow I will check the DTCs and see what I get.

This one's a bit unusual due to the boost and retrofit but I think it might be OK. I'm going to check those suggestions above for a 2bar OS though just in case.

Jim

NSFW

Forum member BoredTruckOwner has been collecting bin and xdf files here:
https://github.com/BoredTruckOwner/L...ine_Repository

Factory bin files for the 2156 OS are up there already, along with an xdf.

As one of the authors of PCM Hammer I'd really rather people did not use it to install custom operating systems modified by HP Tuners or EFI Live. If you want their customized operating systems, you should buy their products.

Plus I'm really hoping that the community can develop open-source custom operating systems. That's going to take a while but I'm pretty sure we'll get it done eventually.

Jim Blackwood

OK then, how about if I post my OS and you guys look at it and see if you think it'll work? (where do you want me to put it?)
I think it will, but it won't have the same definition as a custom OS that one of those tuners suggested to me. However, of the two tuners I talked to, one was hesitant to change the firing order, the other was hesitant to set it up for boost, and the one who would do boost wanted to add an extra table to do it. Why? Resolution I guess, but for 6psi I don't see the need. And these weren't noobs, if I told you their names you would know them.

What makes a custom OS anyway? Does going into the xdf and changing the values on the MAP axis of the tables make it a custom OS? And if it does, what about the OS ID number then? Does TunerPro have a way to change that to something unique?

I should wait until I've reviewed it for DTCs first though, since I activated all the flags. Then I can go back and turn them all off, or most of them.

Anyway, tell me you want me to upload the file and I'll do it.

Jim

B52bombardier1

A custom operating system is one that has been manipulated by HP Tuners or EFI Live and at least I know for HP Tuners, somebody would have paid money ("credits") to license the custom operating system. Tuner Pro RT can make those changes but no credits or dollars change hands and nobody fears a lawsuit from the Tuner Pro RT guy . . . unlike that possibility from HP Tuners or EFI Live.

Rick

NSFW

Let's start with a small over-simplification:

Tuner Pro allows you to change the data that governs how the PCM behaves. Editing the data leaves you with the same operating system just with a different calibration. The XDF file tells Tuner Pro where to find that data that shows you and lets you edit.

A custom operating system is a change to the code that governs how the PCM behaves. Editing the code is changing the operating system.

The over-simplification is that you can also use Tuner Pro to apply patches that actually do change the operating system. There are three ways to create patches:

1) If you are a software developer working for a car manufacturer, your day-to-day job involves working with the source code, which makes this about as easy as it could be.

2) If you are a software developer NOT working for a manufacturer, you reverse-engineer the code on the PCM, figure out what's doing what, and come up with changes that will add the functionality that you want. This is very difficult and time-consuming work. I have never talked with anyone who works for HPTuners and EFI Live but I assume this is how they do it. However, I created a custom OS for my Subaru (adding speed-density, rev matching, and two-step rev limiters for launch control and flat-foot-shifting), so I have some insight into how it's done.

3) If you're handy with computers and think it's OK to pirate the work that HPT and EFI did, you can do a byte-for-byte comparison between their modified operating systems with the original factory operating systems, and come up with a patch, and put that patch into an XDF file.

The Gen3 LS community really needs is more people working on #2. A few of us have done a little bit of reverse engineering and brainstorming of ideas, so I'm optimistic that it will get done, but there's no ETA for it yet.

Jim Blackwood

Thanks. I'm pretty happy to not be in any of those three categories except for when a guy tells me I need a custom OS when really I don't. Then I'm not real happy about that but I can understand why he might want to sell it to me. Buyer beware and all that stuff.

Jim

Jim Blackwood

Currently trying to start the engine. I have a misfire situation though, it acts sort of like when you install a distributor 180 degrees out. I've been on a two pronged approach:
1) I read somewhere that the cam sensor leads being switched could cause this. I have 3 leads on my cam sensor though, (24 tooth crank trigger wheel setup) so the question I have to answer before trying it is, which wires need to be switched, and is it likely to work?
2) Using DTCs to troubleshoot. I've gone through and edited the entire tables C6001 and C6002 for DTC Type and MIL enable, turned off the ones not applicable and made sure the ones that were are on, including the cam sensor ones. However my XDF has a severely trimmed flag tree (only 12 flags). Surely this can't be right. I tried loading different XDF files with the downloaded Silverado bin using:
Camaro- 12202088
12208322
12209203
12212156
All with the same results, I have no idea why.

I just found and loaded 12587603 BETA (with patches) and wow! It looks like the flag tree is all back. Or at least a lot of them. I suppose I can copy the ones for the CMP sensor over into the 12202088 XDF so I now have direction again. But is there a way to copy a bunch of these flags wholesale?

Thanks,
Jim

Jim Blackwood

Yeah, I can see that's not likely to work. Hopefully I'll be able to score a copy of Demented's xdf at some point, waiting for Gearhead to email me a registration confirmation, and haven't found it anywhere else just yet. If anyone else could suggest an XDF for the 12202088 OS that has most of the flags intact I'd be grateful for that, maybe even a stock xdf that I could copy some of the flags from.

Jim

NSFW

I think the file you want is in here:

https://github.com/BoredTruckOwner/L...iles/P01_512Kb

Copying things from one XDF to another is not guaranteed to work. It might, it might not.

Jim Blackwood

Thanks a bunch NSFW. But maybe this is something I should leave alone for now as apparently I don't know what I'm doing. That often seems to be the case around anything that might have to do with code. Apparently I really don't know what flags are or what they are used for. I had gotten the idea they were paired with the DTCs and were needed to read the DTC codes or turn on the MIL. I've been told they are not and have some other purpose. So maybe I'd best just back out of this blind alley before something bad happens.

My problem really is that I retrofitted a 0411 to a Buick V8 and I have a misfire issue. (won't start) I figure it has to be one of 3 things. Coils mis-wired (but 4 would be wired correctly even if and that should start it), cmp issue (but I've been told it will start without a cam sensor), or cks issue. So at his point I am questioning the orientation of my 24 tooth wheel and pickup. Guess I need to put that to bed next. Unfortunately it isn't easy finding info about how to properly orient that trigger wheel and I could have had bad info. More digging required.

Jim

Jim Blackwood

I made some progress but it's kinda strange. Finally got the car to start and run long enough to warm up but it doesn't look like I have datalogging set up right yet. It does work though, I just don't see anything yet on my wideband (on EGR) or the fuel trims. Here's the odd part though, I seem to be way out of bounds in order to get the mixture to stoich. Either the entered injector flow is 10% of actual (0.46 vs the measured 4.4gm/sec) or the VE settings at idle are around 6.0-8.0 or higher. FP is 40psi referenced to the intake (return regulated) and the injectors tested at 35lb/hr at that pressure. I know because I tested them. The engine ran fine on a MS2 controller.

Anyway that is a really big error and I can't seem to find the cause. Any ideas?

Also, I'm ready to bring in professional help, can anybody recommend a tuner?

Jim