Tuner reduced timing tables to 19 degrees to reduce knock
05-26-2005, 09:07 PM
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Tuner reduced timing tables to 19 degrees to reduce knock I have a 1998 and after the tune it drove like a dog. It was explained that I had the stock timing tables (He said 28 or 30) and that it showed a lot of knock.
He explained her reduced the timing to get the knock out. Took the car back to the shop today. Test drove it with laptop connected and the shop owner in the passenger seat.
After the Crane components (1.8's) were installed and during the Dyno tuned he explained they changed the timing tables to 19 degrees to try to reduce the knock that was showing up. In addtion to that it was also explained that helps with the fact we can only get 91 Octane in AZ.
We drove the car with the laptop connected and it showed knock across the board under hard acceleration. You could hear nothing inside the car as far as knock. It also showed it was reducing the timing another 4 degrees down to 15 or so to compensate for the knock that was showing up.
Tuesday it goes in to replace the knock sensors and readjust the timing tables.
And this would explain the reason there is not higher HP numbers and it drives like a dog now? No timing advance to speak of right?
He explained her reduced the timing to get the knock out. Took the car back to the shop today. Test drove it with laptop connected and the shop owner in the passenger seat.
After the Crane components (1.8's) were installed and during the Dyno tuned he explained they changed the timing tables to 19 degrees to try to reduce the knock that was showing up. In addtion to that it was also explained that helps with the fact we can only get 91 Octane in AZ.
We drove the car with the laptop connected and it showed knock across the board under hard acceleration. You could hear nothing inside the car as far as knock. It also showed it was reducing the timing another 4 degrees down to 15 or so to compensate for the knock that was showing up.
Tuesday it goes in to replace the knock sensors and readjust the timing tables.
And this would explain the reason there is not higher HP numbers and it drives like a dog now? No timing advance to speak of right?
05-26-2005, 09:13 PM
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That's retarded. 
Had to say it, but seriously... if you were pinging
there is a better reason. Like the well known knock
sensor problem on '98s, perhaps. Or short fueling.
But there is no spark related reason, not to run
the stock table or higher advance, unless you're
forced induction.
Had to say it, but seriously... if you were pinging
there is a better reason. Like the well known knock
sensor problem on '98s, perhaps. Or short fueling.
But there is no spark related reason, not to run
the stock table or higher advance, unless you're
forced induction.
06-02-2005, 10:01 PM
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The shop replaced the knock sensors with the upgraded version today. The gas is fine. Ran 2 tanks of RedLine fuel cleaner before today and was on its third during the Dyno today.
Re-Dyno'd and.... the problem remains the same. Knock and retard!
On the 27th I will get to the bottom of this knock issue. The shop will be replacing all those new Crane Components (rockers, pushrods, springs) systematically by replacing the rockers first with Harlan Sharps redone OEM's then Dyno. If this is not it then back to OEM pushrods, and use LS6 springs. If this still does not resolve the issue then it more then likely is a lower end problem not audible to the ear.
If this does resolve it then it will be tore down to fit new lifters and a larger cam to get the power I have been spending good money to get.
I wanted more power and eventually I will get it. Damn straight!
Re-Dyno'd and.... the problem remains the same. Knock and retard!
On the 27th I will get to the bottom of this knock issue. The shop will be replacing all those new Crane Components (rockers, pushrods, springs) systematically by replacing the rockers first with Harlan Sharps redone OEM's then Dyno. If this is not it then back to OEM pushrods, and use LS6 springs. If this still does not resolve the issue then it more then likely is a lower end problem not audible to the ear.
If this does resolve it then it will be tore down to fit new lifters and a larger cam to get the power I have been spending good money to get.
I wanted more power and eventually I will get it. Damn straight!
06-02-2005, 10:17 PM
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Happen to have the part # of the sensors they put in..?
I have the same deal at WOT with my 98. I am going to try to get mine down with tuning first, if that don't work my sensors are coming out, and upgradeds are going in. Wish I could post my log... It is only during hard accel. Normal down the road driving there is no knock.
I have the same deal at WOT with my 98. I am going to try to get mine down with tuning first, if that don't work my sensors are coming out, and upgradeds are going in. Wish I could post my log... It is only during hard accel. Normal down the road driving there is no knock.
06-02-2005, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Phoenix57
do you have headers? some ppl have KR cause of headers knocking on something.
WS6 True Duals (Pics) - Ceramic, XPipe, After Axle Muffs (Remus), Oval-round, Headers
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06-03-2005, 10:04 AM
#9
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your wasting alot of money there.
put 100 octane in it, if it still registers KR it's false.
no way would it ping with 100 octane and 19 degrees of timing. unless your tuner has completely fubar'd your car.
i would verify the false knock then put timing back to stock at a minimum and desensitize the sensors to eliminate the false knock.
doesn't sound like this shop knows that much about ls1's ?????
put 100 octane in it, if it still registers KR it's false.
no way would it ping with 100 octane and 19 degrees of timing. unless your tuner has completely fubar'd your car.
i would verify the false knock then put timing back to stock at a minimum and desensitize the sensors to eliminate the false knock.
doesn't sound like this shop knows that much about ls1's ?????
06-03-2005, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackbird
your wasting alot of money there.
put 100 octane in it, if it still registers KR it's false.
no way would it ping with 100 octane and 19 degrees of timing. unless your tuner has completely fubar'd your car.
i would verify the false knock then put timing back to stock at a minimum and desensitize the sensors to eliminate the false knock.
doesn't sound like this shop knows that much about ls1's ?????
put 100 octane in it, if it still registers KR it's false.
no way would it ping with 100 octane and 19 degrees of timing. unless your tuner has completely fubar'd your car.
i would verify the false knock then put timing back to stock at a minimum and desensitize the sensors to eliminate the false knock.
doesn't sound like this shop knows that much about ls1's ?????
06-05-2005, 08:54 AM
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I also have a 98, getting the same codes. Only on hard acceleration, no knock anywhere the oil pressure is great. I cannot hear any detonation either. If this is a common issue on the 98s whats a common fix? Was considering replacing the knock sensors and wiring under the intake but now having second thoughts. Thanks.
06-05-2005, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackbird
your wasting alot of money there.
put 100 octane in it, if it still registers KR it's false.
no way would it ping with 100 octane and 19 degrees of timing. unless your tuner has completely fubar'd your car.
i would verify the false knock then put timing back to stock at a minimum and desensitize the sensors to eliminate the false knock.
doesn't sound like this shop knows that much about ls1's ?????
put 100 octane in it, if it still registers KR it's false.
no way would it ping with 100 octane and 19 degrees of timing. unless your tuner has completely fubar'd your car.
i would verify the false knock then put timing back to stock at a minimum and desensitize the sensors to eliminate the false knock.
doesn't sound like this shop knows that much about ls1's ?????
06-05-2005, 11:55 AM
#13
yeah dont give this place any more money, they are bull shitting you here. 19* should show no knock unless u are running like 16:1 air fuel lol maybe the sensors are so sensitive to the valve train noise they are going off.
you are having the same problem with low power levels right? if those springs in there now are too stiff and the whole package isnt working together well, that could throw off some knock. id go get your stock stuff, use that and see if it goes away, if it does send that **** you got back lol
Lady Redhawk, where is hendersonville? anywhere close to charlotte? im just north of charlotte
you are having the same problem with low power levels right? if those springs in there now are too stiff and the whole package isnt working together well, that could throw off some knock. id go get your stock stuff, use that and see if it goes away, if it does send that **** you got back lol
Lady Redhawk, where is hendersonville? anywhere close to charlotte? im just north of charlotte
06-05-2005, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by WS6FirebirdTA00
Lady Redhawk, where is hendersonville? anywhere close to charlotte? im just north of charlotte
06-09-2005, 08:04 PM
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Replaced the motor mounts and tranny mount. Made a noticable difference in the vibration. The old mounts were hard as a rock and cracked. AZ desert heat is tough on rubber.
We ran the tank down to where it sputtered (almost empty) then
Poured in 2+ gallons of 104 Octane Race Gas.
Aftern idlinig for some time we drove around a bit hooked up to the laptop. Some dumps at a dead stop (boy what a dog now) and some WOT from a float through 3 gears up to 6k RPM.
The knock is still there
at the exact same levels.
NO CHANGE!
I am sure at this point adding that Crane 1.8 kit last month is what is causing the knock sensors to go off.
We ran the tank down to where it sputtered (almost empty) then
Poured in 2+ gallons of 104 Octane Race Gas.
Aftern idlinig for some time we drove around a bit hooked up to the laptop. Some dumps at a dead stop (boy what a dog now) and some WOT from a float through 3 gears up to 6k RPM.
The knock is still there
at the exact same levels.
NO CHANGE!
I am sure at this point adding that Crane 1.8 kit last month is what is causing the knock sensors to go off.
06-09-2005, 08:48 PM
#20
fake knock...i fought mine for 2 months, and it never went away, but for my good luck, it's at light throttle and low rpm, so nothing dangerous even it if was real.
i ended up blaming it on my stiff suspension and forget about it, just look out for any new knock. i just dynoed with 13.0AFR and 29degs of timing and didn't knock, so i figured it's healthy.
so what's next? valvetrain? new knock sensors? more bushings/mounts?
i ended up blaming it on my stiff suspension and forget about it, just look out for any new knock. i just dynoed with 13.0AFR and 29degs of timing and didn't knock, so i figured it's healthy.
so what's next? valvetrain? new knock sensors? more bushings/mounts?