SidewayZ-28

It looks like everyone's doing it or wants to do it. I havent been up to date lately( <img src="graemlins/gr_chug.gif" border="0" alt="[chug]" /> <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> )...could you guys fill me in?

[ November 30, 2001: Message edited by: SidewayZ-28 ]</p>

JNorris

iTrader: (4)

Well in my case after I installed the vig 2800 and shift kit on the 1-2 and 2-3 shift at WOT the PCM was dropping the timing from ~26* to ~ -5*. The PCM would also pull timing when not at WOT but not as much. From what I understand this is a symptom of torque management. I opted at have it removed for this reason. I have not received my PCM back from programming so I have yet to see if this cures the problem.

John

Bear

iTrader: (1)

Cured my problem. I gained 4 tenths with it gone. Thank God and syanara or something like that. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[Burnout]" />

JNorris

iTrader: (4)

Bear - WOW <img src="images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0"> That is a huge improvement. Is that the only change you made? What year is your car and what are the mods?

John

ONYXSS

Bear, no offense, but I gotta give you one of these <img src="graemlins/gr_bs.gif" border="0" alt="[bullshit]" /> <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">

4 tenths for tm delete seems completely impossible.

DJ's Z

iTrader: (10)

ONYXSS, I have to agree with Bear on this...My best friend, who is a member, has a HARD running 2001 (12.01) Z28 with "bolt on only" mods falls on its face after every shift. Thats got to be worth at least 3-4 tenths in a 1/4...When you can feel something that easily in the seat of your pants its a BUNCH off your e/t... Hey, Matt how 'bout a M6...?? haha...didn't think so... <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[Burnout]" />

Loco

I think I need to remove mine. How would you know if your TM is slowing you down?

[ December 01, 2001: Message edited by: Loco ]</p>

Dave Carney

After it's deleted, how many shifts do you get before your tranny pops? Sounds like it would be a real tranny killer. <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0">

gwj

I'm with Dave (questioning). If TM is there to protect the tranny, what are we doing to the life of the trans w/o TM ?
The quest for better times is great, but I want to keep my daily driver on the road.
I've got an open mind about it , though.

JNorris

iTrader: (4)

About Torque Management- I have never heard about any problems with this with fbodys before the 98 models. And back in the days of the TH350/400 I am sure that this did not exist. I do believe that removing TM shortens the transmission life to a degree but how much? I do not know. I think that drag racing (hard driving) shortens the transmission life as well.
In addition, I believe that the removal / disabling TM is treating the symptom not the cause. The reason I say this because there are Fbodys out there with the same mods and same year and some have the problem to varying degrees and some do not have the problem at all. I think the real key to this is to determine what variables the PCM is evaluating to apply TM.


John

Toxic Texan

Well said. Now is someone can answer what is causing TM to do what it is doing.

2xLS1

iTrader: (25)

Torque management is a function of the PCM that reduces engine power
under certain conditions. Torque Management is performed for the
following reasons:
To prevent overstressing the powertrain components.
To prevent damage to the vehicle during certain abusive maneuvers.
To reduce engine speed when the IAC is out of the normal operating
range.

The PCM monitors the following sensors and engine parameters to
calculate engine output torque:
Air/Fuel ratio
Mass Air Flow
Manifold Asolute Pressure
Intake Air Temperature
Spark Advance
Engine Speed
Engine Coolant Temperature
A/C Clutch Status

The PCM monitors the torque converter status, the transmission gear
ratio, and the engine speed in order to determine if torque reduction
is required. The PCM retards the spark as appropriate to reduce
engine torque if torque reduction is required. The PCM also shuts
off the fuel to certain injectors to reduce the engine power in the
case of an abusive manuever.

The following are instances when engine power reduction is likely to
be experienced:
During transmission upshifts and downshifts.
Heavy acceleration from a standing start.
The IAC is out of the normal operating range.
When the driver is performing harsh or abusive manuevers such as
shifting into gear at high throttle angles or shifting the
transmission from reverse to drive to create a rocking motion.

The driver is unlikely to notice the torque management actions in the
first two instances. The engine power output will be moderate at
full throttle in the other two cases.

The PCM calculates the amount of spark retard necessary to reduce
engine power by the desired amount. The PCM disables the fuel
injectors for cylinders 1, 4, 6, and 7 in the case of an abusive
manuever.

Thank Joseph for the info. <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">

Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.

iTrader: (3)

I had my tq. mgt. deleted, and the difference is NIGHT AND DAY! The car continues to charge hard through the shifts instead of falling on its face. My tq. mgt. was pretty bad from the day I bought the car, and it only got worse with the shift kit. I'm going to run the 1/8th tomorrow, and I hope to make it to a 1/4-mile strip next weekend.
.4 from just deleting tq. mgt.? I have a hard timg believing that. Anytime tq. mgt. is deleted, we usually get so much more done to the PCM at the same time. I know that my shift points were way off, I swapped to 3.73's, etc. I don't know of anyone that has deleted tq. mgt. and left everything else alone.

Cool28

iTrader: (2)

TM makes me want to <img src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" border="0" alt="[barf]" />

JNorris

iTrader: (4)

2xLS1, thanks for the great info. Where did you learn this? I would like to learn more.

John

2xLS1

iTrader: (25)

Joseph, a Tech at Scoggin Dickey (he posts here) sent it to me many month ago. He probably got it from the GM material he has access to so it's probably pretty accurate.

Stab & Steer SS

I personally would like it removed from my car.I wouldnt say that I abuse my car to the point of causing major tranny failure so I dont think it would hurt in my case.I do know that my car acts very strange at times for example at about 70-76 mph if I punch it the car will fall on its face with the tachometer stuck at 4000rpms.I have to completely remove may foot from the accelerator and get back in it to get moving again.This happened the other day also at about 45mph.I feel that when I floor my car I take it my own hands what happens to me and my car I want that fugger to move when I floor it. It may cost me my life if it doesnt respond to my commands.I mean if I floor it it must be for a reason,if a car runs a red light and im gonna get T-Boned I need to floor it and get the hell out of the way.


Chris K-----Waiting on ls1 edit GP <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[Burnout]" />

gwj

2xLS1, I can't fault the description, it's straight out of the Helms manual.
Some people claim that TM is hurting them big time, others say no. For now I'll leave mine alone and see how it goes.

Judd

iTrader: (1)

Is this only on auto cars or is it on M6s too?

JNorris

iTrader: (4)

Terry – the only way that I know to tell if you might have a torque management problem is to use AutoTap or another data collection application and make a few WOT runs and look for reduced timing just before or after a shift. I have seen timing reduced from 25* down to 10, 7, -5 degrees. It depends on the car and mods.
Follow the link below and look at the TorqueMan.xls file (Excel format) for an example. Look at the negative timing values.

http://members.aol.com/jnorris404

John