RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I was beginning to get lost reading that other thread (Class action law suit) because there were too many discussions within the thread that had very little to do with each other. I would like to start a thread here just to discuss what possible legal or emission issues we LS1 edit users might be facing. I’m not interested in suing anyone here, I just want some basic answers. If I’m understanding correctly, the “tampering” that’s been done to our PCMs with LS1 edit might cause us to fail emissions?? If so, that is a big problem for me. I had MTI tune my PCM with LS1 edit, and there is no way that my car will run properly with the cam and stock tuning (A4), so going back to stock is not an option. What’s the real chance that LS1 edit tuning will cause emission failure just because you tampered with the PCM? Is this something I should be concerning myself with looking into the future? Am I going to have to go back to a stock cam and stock tune just to pass emissions even if my sniffer test is good? I just want some straight answers on this stuff so I know what I’m looking at here.

My knowledge of PCMs and how they work/are tuned is very limited, so please keep that in mind when wording your responses. Thanks for any time you guys can take in educating me on this situation...

Black LS1 T/A

Presumably, if it does not throw a code and all the tests are on, it should not fail.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

[quote]Originally posted by Black LS1 T/A:
<strong>Presumably, if it does not throw a code and all the tests are on, it should not fail.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thank you for the reply. When you say “all tests are on”, do you mean that all must show “complete”? Because I think my EGR test shows “incomplete”.

Xsta Z 28

iTrader: (2)

"ANY" adjustments to the ECM, engine control module, or "computer" could cause a car to fail emissions. Does not guarantee a failure.

The computer, controls, for example the amount of fuel, or spark advance. If you adjust that to compensate for a larger cam, your car will most likely fail emissions. The test centers in IL, aren't going to know you modded the computer, your car will have just failed to them.

LS-1 Edit would give the car owner the power (once they know how to use it) to mod their own computer and put it back if necessary for emissions testing.

Technically if you change to LT headers and put on dula cats, your should fail the visual inspection due to the exhaust being tampered with. Will they fail you just fo that? Doubt it.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

[quote]Originally posted by Xsta Z 28:
<strong>The computer, controls, for example the amount of fuel, or spark advance. If you adjust that to compensate for a larger cam, your car will most likely fail emissions. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Why would it fail emissions just because of a more aggressive fuel/timing curve? As long as it’s not running too rich I can’t see why that would matter???

Sorry if I misunderstood what you were trying to say, but that statement just confused me further. <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0">

Godspeed

Easy just install a secondary stock PCM in your car and route the OBDII connector under the dash to read the secondary stock PCM, while the primary PCM that has beem modded with LS1 Edit is running the car. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> I think you're worrying alot about nothing.

-Jeremy

Black LS1 T/A

The test checks the VIN and compares it to the VIN fo your car.

If it does not match, it's fraud.

And how ould you get this disconnected computer to report successful tests to the OBD-II connector if it's not connected to anything?

Black LS1 T/A

I think it's a matter of tuning the car to where you throw no codes. Look at my reply with the EPA's testing guidlines in it down further in the forum: if a test fails, the vehicle fails.

To answer the other question, Tests are toggled ON or OFF. If a test is OFF, the computer is considered to be tampered with, and it fails... plus, there is reason to suspect fraud.

They are not making simply avoiding the test easy.

I think if you can tune the car to not throw a code, even with a bigger cam, etc., that's the first thing to do.

After that, perhaps some type of simulator to get good reads... again, that is probably fraud on the street, right?

hmmm <img src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" border="0">

hondakiller

iTrader: (3)

cant the tree huggers leave us car guys alone? we dont go chopping down the forest and they leave us and our v8's alone sheesh. this all seems a bit blown out of proportion to me sounds like tuners got greedy and now ls1 edit is stealing their show so now its a big money fest lawyer this lawyer that. if theyd done it right the first time there would be no need for ls1 edit or if they offered a way to tune for further mods for cheap or free then i dont see the problem.

down with the man!!!!! <img src="graemlins/gr_punch.gif" border="0" alt="[fight]" />

ToplessTexan

[quote]Originally posted by Black LS1 T/A:
<strong>Tests are toggled ON or OFF. If a test is OFF, the computer is considered to be tampered with, and it fails... plus, there is reason to suspect fraud.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sure about that?

Black LS1 T/A

[quote]Originally posted by ToplessTexan:
<strong>

Sure about that?</strong><hr></blockquote>

From the Guidelines:

"Because the presence of unset readiness codes among the non-continuous monitors could be a sign of attempted fraud, it is important that all OBD-equipped vehicles be checked to confirm that readiness codes have been set as one of the pre-requisites for a valid OBD-I/M inspection."

The document is in full at:
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/im/obd/r01015.pdf

ToplessTexan

It's the "all" that getsw me. Some tests are disabled in my factory flash. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">

Chris Spiess

I think a key issue here that I havn't seen mentioned anywhere yet is that due to testing differences from state to state it's almost impossible to make blanket statements like 'do this and you will fail'. Some states apparently connect to he PCM directly and run the OBDII emissions diagnostics? Here in Ohio, we just have a sniffer and gas cap pressure test - and supposedly a visual, but I've never had anyone actually open the hood or look under the car.

Black LS1 T/A

That's what we are talking about, is that states are going to the EPA's recommended I/M plan using OBD-II systems for their counties with certain population and industrial density.

All counties don't have to do this in NC... I think less than 10 do. I'm in one of them. <img src="gr_sad.gif" border="0">

IndyZ28

Only 2 counties in Indiana have emmisions testing. I don't think any in Michigan have it, I know the Metro Detroit area doesn't have any testing.