F13 tuning help needed
F13 tuning help needed Well, 1st background on the car. Mods and dyno #'s before the cam as follows
1999 SS M6 with 4:10 gears and 315 rear tires and 115k miles on it.
Lid with K&N
home ported TB
LS6 intake
ASP pulley
!EGR
!AIR
SLP long tubes with random tech cats(pretty much hollow)
Borla catback with open plate
hardened pushrods
~with the above I made 346/360
add
F13
PRC dual springs
ported oil pump
Comp cams timing chain
New dyno numbers CORRECTED are 362/360
total timing was 26 and A/F was OK, but not too far off(ie high 13's)
So far I have deleted all codes, raised the rev limiter, and adjusted the fuel some to get a good a/f ratio.
Aborted runs as knew tuning wouldn't get me too much more and that something else may be amiss.
Cam off a tooth is pretty much out of the question as we turned it over several times and checked it. Also peaks were at the right spot(HP around 6100) Torque peaked around 5k, and charts weren't rough or anything either.
Also replaced in the last 3k were fuel filter, plugs, and wires.
Car runs smooth(as much as a cam car can) so I wouldn't think a plug or something was dropped on reinstall, but wouldnt a misfire or ignition show up as a choppy graph?
Is there ANYONE local(im in Durham) that can help me get my tune on some without charging an arm and a leg? I'm happy to pay some though!!!
Chris
1999 SS M6 with 4:10 gears and 315 rear tires and 115k miles on it.
Lid with K&N
home ported TB
LS6 intake
ASP pulley
!EGR
!AIR
SLP long tubes with random tech cats(pretty much hollow)
Borla catback with open plate
hardened pushrods
~with the above I made 346/360
add
F13
PRC dual springs
ported oil pump
Comp cams timing chain
New dyno numbers CORRECTED are 362/360
total timing was 26 and A/F was OK, but not too far off(ie high 13's)
So far I have deleted all codes, raised the rev limiter, and adjusted the fuel some to get a good a/f ratio.
Aborted runs as knew tuning wouldn't get me too much more and that something else may be amiss.
Cam off a tooth is pretty much out of the question as we turned it over several times and checked it. Also peaks were at the right spot(HP around 6100) Torque peaked around 5k, and charts weren't rough or anything either.
Also replaced in the last 3k were fuel filter, plugs, and wires.
Car runs smooth(as much as a cam car can) so I wouldn't think a plug or something was dropped on reinstall, but wouldnt a misfire or ignition show up as a choppy graph?
Is there ANYONE local(im in Durham) that can help me get my tune on some without charging an arm and a leg? I'm happy to pay some though!!!
Chris
Last edited by NufNuffZ28; Jan 6, 2006 at 10:43 PM.
11 Second Club
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,498
Likes: 10
From: long island, ny
the timing seems low but not low
my numbers are 400hp/392tq with your ame exact setup but i did it through a stock 10 bolt and 3.42s
do you have a 12 bolt or a 9"?
other then my little better 02 heads and no cats mines the same
my numbers are 400hp/392tq with your ame exact setup but i did it through a stock 10 bolt and 3.42s
do you have a 12 bolt or a 9"?
other then my little better 02 heads and no cats mines the same
11 Second Club
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,498
Likes: 10
From: long island, ny
with just a lid and catback i did 331hp/334tq corrected
that was the original morot ls6 block but that blew up from a bad lifter so now its a forged motor with less compresion and heavier then stock because i still untouched stock heads. if it was still the original motor i would have expected a lil more with the cam like 410
with the 4.10s in the rear i would say you wont loos more then 5 hp though and 5-10 from the low timing...and thats lot
the cats are holding you back also man
take the cats off and add more timing...the f13 likes timing
i think you will hit 380+ easy like that...you should but alo take into consideration the milage of the motor
that was the original morot ls6 block but that blew up from a bad lifter so now its a forged motor with less compresion and heavier then stock because i still untouched stock heads. if it was still the original motor i would have expected a lil more with the cam like 410
with the 4.10s in the rear i would say you wont loos more then 5 hp though and 5-10 from the low timing...and thats lot
the cats are holding you back also man
take the cats off and add more timing...the f13 likes timing
i think you will hit 380+ easy like that...you should but alo take into consideration the milage of the motor
11 Second Club
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,498
Likes: 10
From: long island, ny
ya i did a pre tune run but it not a good comparo becasue the tune that was in the computer at the time was a tune for heads and a trex because thats what blew up and it was runnin hella rich but just to tell you i was making with that crap tune more then your making now...like 365 or something
but that tune iwht the trex and heads did 450 with bad valvetrain harmonics
but that tune iwht the trex and heads did 450 with bad valvetrain harmonics
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Thanks for the help, I just expected more as it did OK before the cam and a couple guys in alocal club have many more miles than I and making more power with smaller cams. Maybe its all in the tune????
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Verdad Gallardo Will do, just stoped as numbers were SO low that was thinking may be something else wrong? Not sure If I should check teh engine out or go for more tuning....Don't want to hurt anything for sure!
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 1
From: Sunny London, UK
Have you logged KR and actual timing to make sure its tracking your commanded timing?
Also you definately want AFR in the very low 13's to mid 12's at WOT for max power. High 13's is likely a little lean to be burning all the O2 you can.
Also you definately want AFR in the very low 13's to mid 12's at WOT for max power. High 13's is likely a little lean to be burning all the O2 you can.
Like the others have already said, richen it up and bump out the bottom right quadrant of the timing table to 28 degrees. I would also pull and reinstall your wires. I had two cylinders down when i first put my cam in and I was wondering why it was so choppy, but i drove it around like that for a few days until i bothered to check it. Since then Ive also had plug wires come loose twice. They dont always cooperate, especially number 6 and 8 for me.
Guits....Good advice. I am checking the wires and plugs tomorrow to see if any are fouled!
What did your car make, before and after the tune?
Keep it coming yall!!!
What did your car make, before and after the tune?
Keep it coming yall!!!
Last edited by NufNuffZ28; Jan 7, 2006 at 11:57 PM.
I'd add.. don't be afraid to pull some timing out also.. I've made good power by pulling timing out of factory cars on occasion. If you add a 1.5 degrees and the car picked up 8 hp across the board than you know you went in the right direction. If you pretty much backed up the previous run than try pulling a degree out from the orginal setting.
Also, listen to the car.. you can hear them either flat or harsh on the dyno. What I mean by that is you can sometimes hear them flat on the dyno in a certain RPM range.. add some timing to that area alone and be rewarded with a broader curve or well.. you catch my drift.
If you where near Charlotte I woudln't mind giving you a hand... we do dyno time for $100 a hour with wideband and I don't mind helping out guys with free hints...
Also, listen to the car.. you can hear them either flat or harsh on the dyno. What I mean by that is you can sometimes hear them flat on the dyno in a certain RPM range.. add some timing to that area alone and be rewarded with a broader curve or well.. you catch my drift.
If you where near Charlotte I woudln't mind giving you a hand... we do dyno time for $100 a hour with wideband and I don't mind helping out guys with free hints...
Originally Posted by NufNuffZ28
Guits....Good advice. I am checking the wires and plugs tomorrow to see if any are fouled!
What did your car make, before and after the tune?
Keep it coming yall!!!
What did your car make, before and after the tune?
Keep it coming yall!!!
How about posting your .hpt file so we can all take a look. Maybe between all of us on this thread, we might pick up on something, or maybe its already good to go and the problem is mechanical.
Well, did some work on it tonight. Turned around teh set screw on teh TB so that I can adjust the idle a little and help with the surging, replaced my O2, and pulled a couple plugs. Here they are
I can e-mail it to you if you throw me your e-mail, but not sure how to post it! I need some PT tuning for SURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pretty fouled. I believe the stock tune was soo out of whack it fouled out my plugs over the course of driving it before. Now I gotta get this Part throttle stuff down!!!
Anyone wanna help with that??
Chris
I can e-mail it to you if you throw me your e-mail, but not sure how to post it! I need some PT tuning for SURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pretty fouled. I believe the stock tune was soo out of whack it fouled out my plugs over the course of driving it before. Now I gotta get this Part throttle stuff down!!!
Anyone wanna help with that??
Chris
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: S.A. TX
Those are pretty nice. Have you done any VE tuning?
I would suspect that your VE table needs some work, maybe alot. With bigger cams you lose efficiency down low, and don't need as much fuel as even a stocker would.
For me, stock VE was too high under 4400 rpm, then too low from there up.
I would suspect that your VE table needs some work, maybe alot. With bigger cams you lose efficiency down low, and don't need as much fuel as even a stocker would.
For me, stock VE was too high under 4400 rpm, then too low from there up.
None yet, kinda new to tuning, but may have some help coming, so I THINK I found at least some of the problem. I did just realize all of those were from the drivers side(side that had the bad O2 I relaced tonight) I will grab one from the passenger side tomorrow!
Not sure on the VE's as I got a drivable tune from a member on this board
Not sure on the VE's as I got a drivable tune from a member on this board