TurboGibbs

iTrader: (6)

Just as I stated above, If I used 4 of my supplied credits for one type vehicle(2 different vin's,same type and year), and I used the other 4 credits on other vehicles, then I ought to be able to use the 4 supplied credits I already used to go torwards the complete make/model and not have to buy 6 more credits to get it. Follow me.
Contradicting Example: You have used up your 8 credits on whatever. You buy 1 VIN (2 credits) for a 99 f-body. You then decide you want the entire year/make for 99 f-body, it will only cost you 4 more credits right?
If that is true then why can't you use the initial 8 credits you paid for in the same way? Please tell me I'm wrong.

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

they finally have it where you can buy a single vin cheaper than a full year, saves you money. before you had to buy the years and didnt have a choice. so you are telling me that if you go to a furnature store and buy a sofa and table separate, and go back and tell them "well i spent the money of the entier set already, give me the love seat for free" you think they will do it? NO. If you are that worried about it just pay the extra $200 now or save the credits until you have money to do so.

Spenser309

Analogies are the devil.

you got it backwards though? What he is doing is returning the 2 vins and obtaining the model year.

I will now relate this to furniture so that you can understand. I buy a bed and a dresser. Go back later to the same store and see that if i buy the dressor, bed and night stand i get a free comforter. So i return the bed and dressor so that i can buy the bed, dressor and nightstand because i get the free comforter. Understand the view of this guy and me?

its kinda like stock, you own enough, you own the company at least thats how i think it should work.

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

you arent returning any vins at all, becuase you will still use the software to tune the same vehicles. and how many places can you use a couch and table and return it? the pricing helps people out who can only afford to do one car and not forcing them to buy an entire year to do one car.

99FormulaWs6

As I said before, It's moving away from the recreational tuner, who can tune all 99's all 00's or whatever two cars they choose. It's going towards sure use credits to license 1 car, then another, and another woops! you're out of credit, please wait two days to answer your emails while we are on vacation. I know you can license a full model year, but all that credit crap is confusing and is complete crap. I was a VERY, VERY big supporter of HP until this **** hit the fan. I hope you all make lots of money, but I see you loosing alot of individual customers, and gaining alot "tuner shops". I thought this program was aimed toward enthusiast......sad, sad, sad....WS6Firebird, you're looking through a skewed perspective, the single license thing would be great if that's the only thing they added, but to drop an extra 100.00 onto the cost of adding a MY... Do I really care about tuning Ford or Dodge? umm...gee I thought this was LS1TECH, not MOD motors plus! I honestly could careless about tuning Mustangs or Chargers, but then again, I don't run a tuning shop.. After a review of the "credit" structure, it's nice to see they have reverted and now you can only get 1 model year, (6 credits out of the 8 you get for 499.00) plus 1 single license, good value there.

M_T_0

is there any info on what the limitations are going to be on the logging with the pro system and how long it will take to get the software update done for this? (please remember the riot that was 2.0)

good work guys and this looks like a winner to me.

so my check list is
1. pay 199 for 2 more year/models.
2. pay 199 for the usb pro cable.
3. add any more vin's at 98 each.

More Than Zero

gameover

A couple of things, you grossly overestimate the % of our customers base that are "recreational tuners" and you are also making a massive generalization based on the LS2 price.

Here are the facts:
- LS1 year/model just got $100 cheaper per license
- we now have single vehicle licenses
- we give you twice the vehciles (4) as the competition at $150 less
- LS2/LS7 is new and hence it costs more
- all other pricing has either stayed the same or got cheaper
- the credit system will be fully automated

It seems the recreational tuner is now faced with the same decision as a tunershop... do i buy the unlimited package or the year/model liceses? Do i buy the single vehicle or the year/model?

Know your market...

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

I am not looking at anything through a "skewed perspective". If you are into tuning enough that you need to buy unlimited licenses, now if you have a buddy with a ford that needs something you can do it for him. Yes, THIS is LS1Tech. HP Tuners is HP Tuners, its not LS1 Tuners, GM Tuners, its HP Tuners. The offer a tuning product for the entire market. Like Chris said, you wont need support for anything, it is all done without interaction and the long wait. So you drop $100 bucks for ONLY TWO years, and save $100 on as many as you can buy after that. I am sure if the pricing structure was this way to start with people would be bitching about the old one they had. If you are really into tuning where you think this would cost more money, chances are you would tune ford and dodge. All I know is now I can do individual cars without having to fork out extra money on my part. Esp if it is only one car of that year I do.

I still dont get it, if it costs you more then up the prices you charge people to cover it. But with $100 comming off the price of 5th year purchase and up, you save.

frcefed98

iTrader: (16)

So says you, how are we to know thats the truth...proof? Just playing devils advocate here.

*edited* Thanks for changing that Chris no need to make take shots at customers/potential customers if they aren't understanding this whole picture.
Instead of stoking his fire even further, try to calm him down and explain the benefits of the new structure. If you were my employee you'd be gone for talking to a customer like that.

Seems like the Mods/tunershops from your board all like this new "scheme" as you guys call it, good, maybe they can "convince" the rest of those who are on the fence about this new "scheme"

I'll be updating my cable to the new MPVI Pro or whatever its called simply because of the black box capabilities. I hate lugging a laptop everywhere so thats the benefit to me. I don't tune other cars so I'm fine with the new pricing layout, i'm pretty easy to please just give me a new box with buttons and I'm all set

But please take it easy and respect the ruffled feathers of the old and new customers until all this stuff sinks in. 'Sides the credit stuff is confusing FWIW.

I'm a HPT supporter but can be a critic because I reserve that right.

P.S. And will you guys be adding 2-3bar upgrades for 98's

Nevermind, i'm already running 2bar SD with my HPT

slow

iTrader: (7)

It comes down to knowing your market, protecting your investment, and protecting your tuners who drop big coin to get unlimited packages, from having to compete with a weekend tuner who can offer similar service for less (no overhead shop, dyno, ect)

The buyer, will have to make a decision on what suits their needs the best, with the most bang for the buck, or cost/benefit analysis for their situation. You can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time.

Having the ability to keep credits on your cable, allows for any random joe you come across and be able to tune their vehicle without having to wait for an e-mail update, ect. Seems like there are a lot of benefits to this, vs negatives, it just takes somebody who has exceeded thier 4 $199 licenses, to realize this.

Ryan

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

All the guys around here like it to, this means I can tune their individual cars without them having to pay as much Seeing that most of the cars are not the same year/model

Magnus

iTrader: (4)

Why is it we receive so much flack for a year/model scheme that we offer... that we invented.. and that nobody else offers.. that you can get nowhere else..

Why is that.. I still cannot understand that.

99FormulaWs6

Way to win customers.... I'm not overestimating anything, I have no clue as to how many people buy what, or how many they tune. My statement was I believed that HP as a company was trying to appeal to the "tuner shop" crowd more than the individual.
My response to your facts:
LS1 year/model just got $100 cheaper per license I'm not a genius, but even I know that $294.00 is $95.00 MORE than 199.00
we now have single vehicle licensesThis is one of the best things you have done as a company
we give you twice the vehciles (4) as the competition at $150 less[i]The ONLY reason I bough HP over Edit or EFI was I liked the fact that I could tune as many cars as I wanted at a reasonable rate(199.00), Now you can get twice as many cars as either of them, however you've taken a step down to their level.
LS2/LS7 is new and hence it costs more I completely understand that, and it's awesome you all are producing tuning solutions for the future, again I commend you.
all other pricing has either stayed the same or got cheaper Like?? The initial cost?? I already have a cable that doesn't really mean much to me.
the credit system will be fully automated That is a relief, so if I need a credit, I can get it immediatly? By paypal? Credit card?

My problem is not with your company, I think what you have done up to this point is great, and probably the best. However, I will never max out my 4 car limit,(per the old system) as many of us will not(my belief). Therefore, it is a 100.00 increase over the old system for us. I currently have a '99 and '02 and at best I would add 2 more, now I doubt I'll even be adding those, as I don't have 600.00 to drop to tune cars for little of nothing(basically gas money) It would cost me nearly 600.00 to the old 400.00. See my point?

Magnus

iTrader: (4)

If you want to use the old system, that is fine. Nobody is forcing you to upgrade to the usb/credits system.

We will support you if you chose to stay a serial interface customer.

frcefed98

iTrader: (16)

BAM! well said and easy to understand



Can't wait till march so I can put my order in for my upgrade to the new box.

Spenser309

can we always upgrade for that 199 price?

Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

Is blackbox loging going to be an extra option or will that be included in the std/pro pricing?

JMO, but I am with the masses in this thread. It doesn't matter how you do the math, it is still more expensive this way then before. You can do the numbers as you want, but the bottom line is it cost more now then it did.

DEE99TA

iTrader: (7)

I don't think the question is "Is HPTuners a better deal than carputing"(not much debate IMHO)

Rather, it is this:

In the past you openly criticized LS1edit's vin locked pricing structure. Now, your pricing is still better than carputing's, that is no doubt. But a lot of people probably look at it like this,

before,
2 year models no vin locking(499)

now,
2 year models
(499+200 to get the 12 total credits needed for 2 gen III's).

Granted, there are options to go to the individual vin route. There are many options that make the new model seem better and some that the old model appears better.

Also, the LS2 guys seemed to be caught offguard with the premium rates.

Whatever reasons or justifications, valid or not, there are going to be people that are upset with the above conditions.

In reality, many people will still buy the new cables(you guys know this). But, they may not be as "happy" doing so. However, many may choose not to upgrade.

I personally was holding out to buy the USB for convenience, but I was also caught off guard by the newly revised pricing structure. I will probably be ordering one very shortly anyways.

DEE


*edited typos since my original post was typed quickly...*

Magnus

iTrader: (4)

It's part of the MPVI Pro hardware. We only sell MPVI Std and MPVI Pro.

Black02SS,

Your blanket statement only applies to a select case scenario. It has already been discused and answered in this thread.. We do acknowledge the case you are talking about but please do not make such blanke statements. What you are trying to imply and convince our customers of is that our new pricing structure as a whole is more expensive than our previous which is simply not the case.

If your only desire is to program 2 different year/models an unlimited number of times, then yes it is more expensive.

If you are that person and wish to add year/models as you go, after a few year/model licenses, it becomes cheaper with the new USB license model. Sure, the first 2 additional year/models are $199 with the old hardware, but then they become $399 each, and that does become more expensive (cumulative) than the $299 licenses you can buy with the new hardware. The thing here that is lacking in every example is that people who chose this route were forced to before because we did not offer a single vehicle license. They had no other way. Now they do and thus they will not have to use only year/model licenses.

Every other avenue becomes cheaper.

There is also huge cost savings in the ability to chose a single vehicle lock license now instead of being forced to purchase a vehicle type license like before. Do not overlook this.

Another option where it is much cheaper is if you have 4 seperate LS1/V6 vehicles and you want to tune them all. You can do that for simply $499 now. Before that would cost you $897.
Savings: $398

Maybe you have a race car and want to run a 2bar operating system. You can do that for only $499 and still tune another car. Before that would cost $698.
Savings: $199

Magnus

iTrader: (4)

Dee, well said.