STANG KILLA SS 2

iTrader: (6)

im looking to get into Track days, HPDE, road racing etc. (no desire to autox but not apposed if it helps)
ive got a typical street strip car now. no suspension mods though.

car info:
00 SS
Forged/Heads/Cam LS1 @ 467hp
Moser 12 bolt w/ 4.10s
Sportlines with dragshocks
chrome 18s w/ 275/295 KDW 2
Hawk pads, ebay rotors



from my research some of the parts i have are the worst possible choice for road racing. sportlines, drag shocks(obviously) etc.

also the biggest thing ive noticed recommended when starting out is the driver mod. seems that track time is far more important than the car build.
so first mod will be going to a bunch of events, and getting instructor ride along lessons etc.

so once i finally get good enough to start knowing what im doing, be able to push the car and want more from the car, thats where i have questions.

the car will be a track only car. dedicated racer. only driven on street hand full of times a year.

1. sway bars. what is recomended here? brand and sizes? will i need anything special to clear/mount my Moser 12bolt? would adjustable rear be helpful down the road? is this the best way to tune US/OS?

2. Springs: recomendations for track car?

3. Brakes: what pads are recomended? anything else? lines etc i need to know about?

4. Shocks: recomendations? do i need adjustable?

5. Tires: whats a good tire? what sizes/width stager to people prefer? 17" seems to be the most popular diameter and affordable. but is it worth going 18" right away in prep for CTS-V brakes?

6. Cooling: is stock suffecient? its hot in Texas, what needs upgrading? brand recomendation?

7. SFC: are they worth the money and weight?

8. STB: do they really help?

9. Forums: besides this one, any recomended forums to read up on parts, setups, events etc.

10. Texas Tracks: anyone know what tracks are here and where to find events and instruction?

any and all advice would be greatly appreciated. looking forward to getting deep into this side of the sport.

-Cory

Arctic2002ss

You are not far from Texas World Speedway in College Station. There are at least 2 different groups that do HPDEs there. I have done several with The Driver's Edge. Just take the car as is for now. Yes, they put an instructor in the car with you until you are qualified to solo. The track is really suited to big horsepower RWD cars. You just sign up, get the car inspection they require, and go let them show you how this is done.

No, those springs and shocks are probably not gonna help but are OK for your first event or 2.

Momentum

One of the best bang-for-your-buck events will be a PDX (Performance Driving Experience) that the SCCA often conducts when running regional races at your local road track. They use these to get people interested in racing. Usually has a 1 hour driver briefing with basics for observing flags/proper lines/when to pass/etc. And they will put a driver in the passenger seat who is racing that weekend to help you in real time. You usually get about 3 or 4 20 minute sessions and you get to watch racing inbetween your sessions. Believe me, that will be enough in the Texas heat.

They do these at MSR in Houston and I believe at Eagles Canyon in the Dallas area.

MSR also does a charity event that incorporates a similar experience in August.

There's a whole list of things to get your car ready for your first event. Bleed brakes and put racing fluid in, etc. You can find suggestions in a lot of places out on the net.

I wouldn't spend much money before your first event (except for a helmet) until you see how you like it.....and you will! Your car makes plenty hp to go fast, so then it will be brakes, suspension mods and dedicated track wheels and tires. I am not familiar with your car to make specific suggestions.

dbs1

Cory,

I don't know what your budget is, but my advice is don't get carried away to start with till you're sure this is what you want to do with the car and you are willing to spend the $. Or, just how serious you are going to be? More serious = more $.

You're right, your drag shocks are not going to cut it for sure!

I'd start with a call to Sam Strano parts who can probably get you everything you need. From your power level it sounds like that part is handled for now. Sam will probably suggest you do one of his package suspension deals with Koni shocks and better sway bars of which he has that figured out. His package can include sfc's (a must) as well as a stb. Adjustable or fixed items are something to ask Sam about. I don't change them so I went the non adjustable route.

Lighter weight wheels and sticky tires are something to look at down the road once you get sufficient seat time to get a good feel for it. Sam might also tell you that with a couple of upgrades and the right pads your current brakes are plenty capable. I went to a C5 rotor size, but retained the rest of the 02 camaro Brakes and used Sams suggestions on pads. I do have a hydraboost unit, but no problem stopping or with fade on my 640hp 02 camaro with some brake ducts for the front and running near 145mph down the straights.

Start with Sams suspension package, better brake fluid, rotors and pads and then seat time. Youll also probably need some better coolers for the oil and pwr steering and possibly a better radiator (I have a Ron Davis unit). Once you've got the techniques down find some lightweight wheels and r compound tires (I use nitto NT01) and you should be very competitive. Other then wheels and tires I think you can get everything from Strano parts along with some great advice.

STANG KILLA SS 2

iTrader: (6)

wow some really great advice here. keep it coming.
ive been reading old LS1tech threads for over a week now, day and night.

i think the Konis are gonna be out of my reach. any suggestions on non-adjustables? say $500 max for all 4 shocks? looking for performance, not ride. spring wise right now my research is leaning me towards the BMR 1.25" 550/160 springs. but still very early and open to suggestions.

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

1. sway bars. what is recomended here? brand and sizes? will i need anything special to clear/mount my Moser 12bolt? would adjustable rear be helpful down the road? is this the best way to tune US/OS?

I have the 1 LE 32MM front bar and the stock rear bar, for the money this setup is HARD to beat. Predictable push and can get on the gas early and make it stick. All SS and WS6 cars came with the 32MM front and 19MM rear, this is a good setup.

2. Springs: recomendations for track car? Strano Springs or any 550 front 150 rear spring.

3. Brakes: what pads are recomended? anything else? lines etc i need to know about?
If you have ANY natural driving ability at all you will overheat the stock brakes on the first event. To start I would put Hawk DTC30 on the front and HP+ on the rear. I have some fronts with good life left for sale. Change the brake fluid to at least ATE Superblue and try to get some kind of cooling ducts to the front brakes.

4. Shocks: recomendations? do i need adjustable? To start put some stock replacements on or go ahead and pop for some Bilstiens or Koni's as you will buy them later anyway.

5. Tires: whats a good tire? what sizes/width stager to people prefer? 17" seems to be the most popular diameter and affordable. but is it worth going 18" right away in prep for CTS-V brakes? You can run CTS-V's under 17 inch wheels, I like the 275-40-17 Nitto NT-05, $660 a set shipped to your door. 200 treadwear which is what you need to be on for the first 10-12 events. I buy old beat up Zr1 wheels and paint them black for track duty .....buy the same size wheels and tires as you can flip the tires from side to side and rotate from front to rear for much more tire life .

6. Cooling: is stock suffecient? its hot in Texas, what needs upgrading? brand recomendation? Stock cooling should be fine as long as its in good working order.

7. SFC: are they worth the money and weight? I say yes, especially if its a T Top car. You will get different answers here.

8. STB: do they really help? I dont use one, but the only style I see being any benefit is the 3 point style.

9. Forums: besides this one, any recomended forums to read up on parts, setups, events etc. www.frrax.com www.nasaforums.com

10. Texas Tracks: anyone know what tracks are here and where to find events and instruction? www.motorsportsreg.com www.clubregistration.net

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Put an external power steering cooler on the car, you will need it later on anyway and it will save your pump and rack.

Send the power steering pump to PSC and have it revalved for $100.

Turn loose of the drag racer mentality, it will get yo in trouble quick. Its all about corner speed, grip and braking ability....there are many more corners on the track than there are straightaways.

If you feel like the car needs to be in second for a particular corner, leave it in third and crack the gas open as soon as the car is finished rotating and feed it pedal smoothly.

Shift the car at 5500 by the tach, its much easier on the car.

Pump the brake(tap it) on the straight to get the rear brake pads pushed back against the rotor, these cars suffer from pad knock back on the rear. The pedal will feel goofy if ya dont, you will think it needs more(better) pad when it might not.

1981TA

iTrader: (7)

Just taking a quick glance at your parts list, about the only thing I'd consider monkeying with before your first track day would be the shocks. If they're drag shocks all the way around, pretty much anything would be an improvement for handling. Worse case, though, drag shocks will just force you to corner slower. The car will have more pronounced body roll, and be more apt to lock up the rear tires when braking hard. Best suggestion I have here, just don't try to 'win practice' - hdpe's are primarily for learning and enjoyment. You aren't racing the other guys out there.

Tire size... I've seen people go big, but after a walk around the pits at the June Sprints (Road America race track), and looking closely at the gonzo fast GT1 and GT2 cars, I'm convinced that a 17 or 18 inch 275-width tire is all you really need. These sizes happen to have a huge variety of tires available, compared to most other sizes. Wheels in this size range tend to be in the sweet spot in the size vs. Weight balancing game.

You've got an excellent rear axle, but it's obviously set up for drags. The gear ratio is a bit steep. I've got 3.73s and have been advised to go to 3.42s, mainly to result in less shifting. I also plan on going with a c-clip eliminated rear end (modified 8.5 inch 10-bolt) Don't worry about this stuff now. It's expensive and not required to have fun. It's a "down the road" tweak.

Brake pads - I'm running ebc yellow stuff front and back, and went the full weekend without needing a swap. I did have to bleed the fronts, however. No matter what you pick, it's good idea to have a spare set of front pads and rotors available.

JD_AMG

Search search search.
First, you don't want to skimp on shocks, period. They will be the foundation to good handling, skip on springs or other suspension mods for now and get good shocks first (like Konis). And lets not play the "i cant afford it" game, you could afford a built, forged engine (where as konis would knock more time off at a road course than that would...) and a 12bolt rear end (which is only going to be hurting you with the extra weight). And how much were those wheels and tires? Being 18s, staggered and likely pretty heavy they are not in your favor.
This is definitely something you should talk to Sam Strano about, someone with actual racing experience (and national SCCA champions in an Fbody, something no other vendor can brag about). Other vendors are going to try to sell you on large packages with things you don't need or may hurt handling, where as Sam will sell you only what is going to help, and tell you what you don't need (because hes been there, and is not a salesman like the others).

Generally speaking 35mm front, 22mm or 21mm rear bars are proven to be a balanced neutral setup. Likewise the stock 32mm front, 19mm rear bars are also neutral. Some sell 32/22 or 35/25, both of which are prone to oversteer.
Speaking of the rear axle, believe it or not you are better off with a 10bolt. The added unpsrung weight of the 12bolt really hurts.
Strano or custom ground control springs with an adjustable ground control perch you can mount on your front shock, and to your rear axle.

Race fluid(super blue), quality BLANK (slotted is ok, just no drilled) rotors, and race pads if you truly don't want to street drive the car. <-something you can talk about with Sam.

You do not "need" adjustable. But they will help with dialing the car in how you want it to drive and behave vs being stuck with however a non adjustable shock is valved. NOTE: Just because a shock is adjustable (or can be made "stiff" does NOT mean it can be good for handling, for example: QA1s, Strange and Afco shocks are adjustable non-gas charged drag shocks, and while you can make them "stiffer" thats not the same as making them be able to properly damp the spring and give good feel/feedback and good handling.
Konis are popular because of the amount of rebound dampening they provide vs their cost, not just because they are "adjustable". They provide a significant about more rebound than say bilstiens, which will allow them to control a stiffer spring much better (in will yield you better, more controlled handling).
Its pretty popular to run 17x11s all around with 315/35s and race (hoosier for example) tires. For a neutral setup on these cars you generally want to run a square setup (no staggered).
CTS-v brakes are not necessary (certainly don't hurt) but Ive seen a thread where they were modified to work with 17s.

You may want a rebuilt (turn one) power steering pump with an aftermarket cooler and race fluid(red line).
As far as engine/drivtrain cooling goes I *think* the stock components (fresh fluids) are adequate, but Im not sure on that.
Nope.
If you want to stiffen the chassis add a cage.
FRRAX.com
http://www.na-motorsports.com/Tracks/TX/

Get out there and have fun. Remember you are not racing anyone, learn the car and dont try and over do it.

STANG KILLA SS 2

iTrader: (6)

wow those are some serious posts. thats how its done.
amazing amount of info and very specific.
thank you guys so much. i cant tell you how much i appreciate you guys taking the time to type all that. now i have more research and reading to do looking up your advice!

Fastfatboy: thanks for the specifics and the extra info at the end.

1981TA: the rears are summit 3 way drag shocks. the fronts are stock origonal shocks with 130k miles on them.

also i may have ruled out the konis too quick. looks like BMR has a combo with koni SA and there springs for a VERY good price and puts that combo only and extra $100 over buying the BMR springs and bilsteins seperatly.

JD AMG. great specifics. i particularly like how you called out the sway bar F/R ratios and there relationship. was not finding much info on that. could you go into more info on the 315 up front, i have not seen that. what mods are needed to get away with this? is it because on a road course there is not much steering angle needed? so rubing at lock/before lock is not an issue?
yeah wish i had my 10 bolt back now. times change i guess.

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

If that car was mine, I would swap the 12 bolt for a 10 bolt 3.42 rear plus cash.

Take the cash and buy turning stuff.

I forgot to add, THE best money I spent on my car was a Kirkey Roadrace seat, it allows you to DRIVE and not FIGHT the car. I take it in and out as needed.

Autocross events tech very good car control, do some of them.

JD_AMG

You're very welcome, always nice to help another fbody guy out (to put a further beat down on the mustangs )
315s will fit up front with very little mods believe it or not (im not running them yet, but many other have).
Heres an example and someone else knowledgeable to talk to also:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/17404297-post12.html

1981TA

iTrader: (7)

Oh. Hell. Yes.

I'd have to say putting race seats (Corbeau here) in my car made a massive difference in the feeling of being in control. I could concentrate on driving and learning lines, rather than holding onto the steering wheel to keep from sliding around.

Power Steering: Another vote for getting a good cooler, at the very least. I also got a Turn One pump.

to reduce the knock back effect, check out your caliper slide pins ahead of time, and make sure the grease hasn't dried out. Clean/repack them if needed.

ls1 1990 VN

Power steer cooler is a must.
5 point race harness will hold you into a 'race or bolstered seat' lap belts let you slide around to much.
Flush out your brake fluid with a Dot 5 type.
330mm plus & heat treated slotted only rotors with a min 4 pot caliper
EBC Yellow stuff pads will see you good on the track & street.
Depending on what the track is like, a certain amount of negative camber on the fronts, be it more on the left if it's a prominently right turning track or vise versa,
I run 3deg negative left, 2 1/2deg neg right where the full race cars run 6 deg neg left, 5deg right.
Shocks: full adj Tein or Bilsteins set up properly will help the car work, not nose dive under brakes, getting around corners & power down out of the corners etc.
Decent semi slicks, don't use a road tyre that's made to look some what like a semi slick.
Don't abuse the tyres make sure they are heat cycled properly.

Watch your oil surge...I run a 3 quart accusump. Fuel starvation is fixed with a 2 ltr surge tank & extra fuel pump

STANG KILLA SS 2

iTrader: (6)

lots of great info. i would have never known about the PS cooler. great tip there. i would have never thought seats were important either. another great inside tip. i do have racing seats in the car, but just stock lap/shoulder belts. i know ive seen 5pt belt bars you can install in vettes( if you dont have cage to mount them to) i wonder if they make one for the 4th gen?

ive seen the camber thing mentioned. is this something a normal alignment shop can do? ie just tell them i want -x.x front camber and they can do that instead of whatever factory recomended is?

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

Join FRRAX.COM and do a LOT of reading.

It's all already been done over there.

You need a harness bar, someone still makes them.

I put a Wolfe racecraft 4 point bar in my car, more safety, more rigid car, rollover protection and a place to properly hook up belts.

You also need to run the car 1 quart over on oil or pull the oil pan and put an Improved Racing baffle in the pan. I put the baffle in and run at stock oil level with no issues.

You also need a good catch can setup on the car.

The max you can get on front camber is a little over 1 degree with stock stuff, if you want more you either have to slot the lower control arm holes, by offset upper bushings (Strano) or buy upper arms.

STANG KILLA SS 2

iTrader: (6)

great tips.
i tried to join on FRAXX, but it said they are no longer accepting new members
ive got a catch can on the line that runs from PCV? to the throttle body to catch oil. is that what your refering too?

great tip on the extra quart.

ive got a set of tubular adjustable upper arm that are new in box i bought years ago and never installed. when the time comes im good enough for camber i guess thats the time to finally install them. or maybe at the same time as the spring/shock upgrade.

Andy1

If you have indeed made up you mind that this will be a track only car/occasional street, then your course of action should be focussed on that. Forget the mod's initially, safety equipment is first, IMO. A roll cage and safety restraints first. Second, before spending any money, gut the car and get as much weight out of it as possible. Reducing weight is tantamount to increasing spring rates. It will be less taxing of your brakes (yes to performanc pads), and improve accelleration. May as well invest in an Accusump to guard against oil starvation. Your approach on learning to drive first is sound; spend lots of time on the track, learn, and don't try to over drive the car. Smooth is fast.....Don't fall prey to late braking maneuvers until you get lots of seat time.

Andy1

STANG KILLA SS 2

iTrader: (6)

thanks, yeah definatly gonna take the humble approach.
i defiantly have NO to desire to keep the car streetable. end goal is learn to drive, and then build a track only car to have fun in.

when it comes to gutting. after ive removed all of the interior (carpet, seats, headliner, plastics, spare/jack etc etc) and all the stereo. besides AC delete what other "gutting" is there?

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

I have a buddy who has a caged roller for sale, all the hard stuff is done. Its for sale.

He went back to a street car.

STANG KILLA SS 2

iTrader: (6)

building the car is half the fun isnt it?
....well the times when your not cussing the car out at the top of your lungs working on it