Grouchy

Hey guys,

First and foremost, this is a VERY green post and I apologize.

I'm looking to get into road course running an LS powered 5g Camaro or C6 with an LS3. This would be big project for me as I want to tear the motor down and rebuild it to class fit a class (somewhat similar the Rolex GA specs is around the power level I'd like to run) along with a full suspension work-over. This wouldn't be big crew operation of course, just something I could do with the help of a few friends on the weekend.

What I'm curious about is where to start? Not only with the decision between Camaro/Corvette, but what associations/clubs to look at? I'm embarrassed to ask these questions to a bunch of guys who are invested and clearly know the sport, but any direction/tips you guys could give would be helpful. Racing is a passion I've had since a little kid, but the funds were never there until now.

Thank you.

garcr4

iTrader: (1)

Do you want to wheel to wheel race or do high performance driving events. Two very different deals. I know many who thought they wanted to race, and then after spending a lot of money building a new racer, sometimes a shop, a trailer and tow vehicle, quickly found out it was not what they expected. Or maybe better stated, more than they expected. Actual W2W racing takes an enormous commitment of time and money and puts a lot of strain on relationships as well.

I think a good plan for someone who thinks they want to go road racing is to join one of the clubs, SCCA, NASA or other, attend some races, maybe volunteer for some team and get a feel for the cost and commitment.

If then you are sure you want to try it, you might apply for a novice license and rent a spec Miata or similar and go to an SCCA or NASA driver school.
You will quickly learn if it is for you and at much less expense.

If you do decide to go racing, I would encourage you to look at going the route of purchasing a purpose built race car such as a SCCA GTA car if you are sure you want to go the "big noise V8" route. These are tube frame machines that weigh about 2800 with driver with about 500 HP. Very fast yet pretty easy to work on, very safe, with off the shelf performance parts available from the circle track suppliers both new and used at good prices. Tires are 600 a set, which is less than spec miata tires. These cars can be bought used for 15-25 K and are thrilling to drive. Mine have been powered by LS1's making around 500 HP and have been pretty reliable.

I went the route of converting street cars into race cars when I started out and now wish I had just gone the tube frame racer route. I started with old Datsun 240 and 280 Z's and it wasn't bad, they were fast and fairly cheap to operate but knowing what I know now would go the other way.

Don't try to make your daily driver into a part time race car. They then kinda suck at both.

Before you decide, do a lot of research first.

Good Luck

Andy1

No better words said! You'll spend tons of money, and it won't be good at either.

Andy1

Wnts2Go10O

iTrader: (12)

you didnt expand on the HDPE route garcr4

garcr4

iTrader: (1)

My experience is in 22 years of road racing and 0 in HPDE, that said, I think HPDE events are great for those that want to enjoy their HI-PO cars doing what they were built to do...go fast. I think any track time is going to make one a more proficient driver and one can explore the limits of the car and themselves in a relatively safe environment.

I still don't think most will know if they really want to W2W race until they do it. That is why I recommend renting a spec Miata and attending an SCCA or Nasa school.

It is one thing to drive fast and hit your lines and then another to do it with someone so close you could not slip a sheet of paper between the cars.

1981TA

iTrader: (7)

after watching the SCCA June Sprints at Road America last weekend, I have to say Spec Miata is *the* place to be if W2W racing is your ultimate goal. It is very competitive and there are far more people on the track than the other classes. Don't get me wrong, I love the big engine V8 gonzo cars and run a "project in progress" myself, but if pure competition is your dream, you should seriously look into joining the hive of angry bumble bees at the track.

At least, that's what it sounds like to me when 60 of those things go zipping by.

Garcr4 had some sage advise. Unless your goal is to get into a class with street car roots as a requirement (Spec Miata, etc), I wouldn't start by converting a street car into high-end SCCA competitive car. I'd get a purpose-built track beast with a tube chassis.

In my case, I use a track-focused car for HPDE that happens to remain street legal. I may eventually play around in a NASA class, but who knows. I still have over $20K into the thing in my sig, with another 7K planned to make it "perfect." Yes, paint is high on the list. It's good for learning the ropes, but it's still "Car 1.0" for me.

Car 2.0 will come after I sort out my skills as a driver.

garcr4

iTrader: (1)

Here is one of my toys. Although it looks fairly stock looking the only things that are Corvette are the body and the nearly stock LS6. We built this for way less than others have spent on buying and converting stock C6's into competitive race cars.

* Tube frame chassis by Woody at Bemco Fab
* Nascar Brembo brakes
* Nascar G Force 4 speed tranny
* Nascar 9" Ford Rear end
* Penske Shocks
* CCW Wheels
* Schwanke forged stock dimension LS6 about 420 to the wheels

Joseph Freda

Once you have driven a beast of a Big bore muscle car, I have found it difficult to enjoy driving a little rice grinder. I would recommend checking out Chinn motorsports. They offer a ton of track time and excellent instructors. When your getting started out, it is easy to get carried away with car mods. The part that needs the most work is generally the nut behind the wheel. Get as much seat time as possible, and then start modifying your car for greater speed. It is easy to get in over your head with a really fast car if you are just starting out. When totally comfortable in your car at speed, then start looking into wheel to wheel racing.

garcr4

iTrader: (1)

I agree with Joe, I find it hard to go back to the smaller cars after the stock cars ..and Corvette, and the Datsun Z car (E Prod) wasn't all that slow...about 150 at Daytona.

Joe do you still have a GT-1 car?

Grouchy

Guys, I REALLY appreciate all of the tips and info you have given me. I have been reading through this forum religiously since I made my first post. I bought the book "Going Faster!" from the Skip Barber Racing School and haven't been able to put it down in my free time.

The more I think about it, I would really like to have a dedicated track car. I like the thought of running some HPDE events just to get some seat time in my current DD - an '08 Mustang GT. I am VERY interested in running something like you are "garcr4" eventually in a W2W setting. That looks like almost exactly like what I would want to do. The HPDE events seem really fun for racing against yourself (or even some other extremely cool cars not often seen on the street), but the comptetitiveness in me would want to be in a class to test my skills against others in similar spec'd cars.

I've somewhat been around racing my whole life (mainly dirt cars) - helped out in the pits, helped work on the car away from the track, so I have somewhat of an understanding of what racing can do to your wallet. My dad's good friend always told me if I wanted to feel like I was racing to take every other paycheck and burn it "now you're racing" (haha).

I definitely need to look in attending some of these structured club races and possibly making a few contacts. I've never heard of renting a race car, but I guess that just goes to show how new I am to this. I would like to attend a driving school soon, too.

Thanks again.

SKMCOBRA

Join a NASA association and run time trials.

Joseph Freda

I am currently building a new GT-1 car. It have hired Mark Meissen to build the chassis. I hope to have it by then end of this year and it will probably take most of next year to finish.

For now, I am happy to race our vintage Camaro. Had a blast last weekend at the NASA Road Atlanta event. Matt Isabell has a video of our race posted on you tube.

garcr4

iTrader: (1)

Miessen builds some wicked fast GT-1 cars! Keep us posted on your build.

Wnts2Go10O

iTrader: (12)

i have this problem where i look at pictures like that and think 'hmm, what could it use besides engine to go faster.' it really is a sickness



on what Freda said: i would think that power mods would be the last thing to be done for someone learning the ropes of track driving/setting up the car. however, well researched suspension mods while getting experience behind the wheel would be the best way to do it as one could learn how to feel the differences.

Andy1

Grouchy,

Hope you have fun, which is the main goal (unless you have professional aspirations). Believe me, spending a lot of money can knock the fun right out of it all, so take advice from some of the racers. Go to the track and ask lots of questions at something like a local NASA event. Learn about the cars and their associated season budgets. The best bet is to find a guy selling his whole racing program, sorted car, trailer, spares, etc. Your cost will be way less than piecing it all together yourself.

Joseph Freda makes a good point too. Find an opportunity to learn such as he mentions. Even a Kart racing school would be an inexpensive and fun way to learn. Here in SoCal, we have arguably the best Kart racing school in the nation, Jim Hall Kart Racing (run by the son of the famous Jim Hall). They offer several levels of competition driving instruction.

Allow me to add this: There's learning how to drive, and then there's learning how to race.

Good luck,

Andy1

QTB

Yeah Andy1 is spot on about the cost of building a car. It's fun to some degree but very expensive. I bought my 350z new, did a lot of auto-x then got into tracking it at HPDE and now doing Time Trials with a LS motor and I could have bought a full race car, truck/trailor and all the fixiings for what I've dumped into my Z over the years as it has progressed. Good luck and have fun, it's a blast.

Tyler Wilson

iTrader: (6)

Wow. Wish I had talked to you 4 years ago, I've got much more than $25K into my car and it is still not done! And it is nowhere near one of these:

http://www.racingjunk.com/GT/1818575...y-Ex-ASA-.html

I might as well sell my car and but that one.
Good advice.
Grouchy, listen to these guys!

garcr4

iTrader: (1)

That sounds like a very good deal. A new one from Howe or Port City etc would be 70K plus. They are very safe, fast and easy to adjust.

I will be building a similar one but with the new Howe Mustang body. It will get LS power however.

Tyler Wilson

iTrader: (6)

Good to hear!
Shoot, here's a 2011 for 1/2 original price

http://www.racingjunk.com/Other/1818...m-TA2-car.html

Guess I can keep dreaming......

garcr4

iTrader: (1)

Also not a bad deal from a two time Trans Am TA2 champion